Yesterday’s development update from 1CGS of their next Collector Plane has evoked the community’s imagination and prompted valid questions on what the Ta152H-1 would be useful for and what’s the point of even having it. Curious to reacquaint myself with the aircraft’s history and reputation I went on a bit of a deep dive to see what I could dig up. Here are my thoughts and some resources you may want to read too.

Intended purpose vs used purpose

There’s no question about it that Kurt Tank and the rest of the designers at Focke-Wulf were intent on building a better bomber interceptor when they designed what became the Ta152. Experiments over the course of several years lead to a variety of different designs and engine configurations. Some of the results of that effort lead to the development and production of the Fw190D series which did improve on the Fw190’s altitude performance as well as overall top speed. But more was needed.

Intelligence reports and a brief tour of B-29 bombers in England no doubt had some impact on the need for fighters that could fly and fight at higher altitudes so more updates to the Fw190 line were made. The result was the Ta152C and Ta152H with the C models intended for medium altitude operation and the H model, with their 48 foot wing span, for high altitude operations.

Thanks to the Junkers Jumo 213E, GM-1 boost and a complex supercharger system, the Ta152H-1 could reach 472 mph at 41,000 feet (or 759 km/h at 12,500 meters). Service ceiling was even higher at 49,000 feet (15,100 meters). That would put it in the same height range of any potential attacking B-29 formations and with a comfortable extra altitude range to boot.

That was the intended purpose, however, the Ta152s delivered to III./JG 301 and then later to Stabstaffel JG 301 rarely had any opportunity to be used as a bomber interceptor. Most flights were flown at lower altitudes and engaged with Allied fighters including P-47s, Tempests and Yak-9s. Somewhat ironically, no bomber kills were officially attributed to the Ta152H.

Depending on source, the Focke-Wulf plant was able to deliver somewhere between 70-150 Ta152 models. Reports also indicate that only about a dozen were ever operational at one time and spare parts by the end of the war was an intractable problem.

Combat reports

It’s difficult to gather information on combat sorties for III./JG301 but some sources exist on the internet that appear to offer detailed information. One Blogspot site details the Ta152’s combat experiences with several reports of it in action.

Although the III/JG301 began to be equipped starting in January of 1945, it seems that it wasn’t until March 1945 when the first combat sorties were flown.

Another report from the Ta152 Wikipedia article indicates a failed March 20 intercept of a Mosquito with engine troubles interfering with the fighter’s ability to intercept. Another from Plane Historia mentions a scuttled attempt at a B-17 intercept around the same time with Bf109s scattering the attack after the unfamiliar aircraft were misidentified.

Of course there’s the infamous fight between Oberfeldwebel Willi Reschke and a pair of Tempests from RAF No. 486 (NZ) Squadron on April 14 that has been printed and reprinted in several books and online sources. The Tempests being bounced by a trio of Ta152Hs with Reschke firing at and damaging one Tempest that later crashed.

Aircraft designer Kurt Tank also infamously reported being bounced by P-51D Mustangs and was able to escape at full throttle. There is some question as to the veracity of the account with no USAAF reports mentioning the encounter.

Depending on the source Ta152Hs were involved in the destruction of 7 Allied fighters, no bombers, and there were four combat losses.

What can we use it for?

What can we use the Ta152H for? Can it be shoe-horned into the Battle of Bodenplatte Career mode? I think it can!

With in service date in January and combat sorties flown in March and April, there’s a small window of opportunity for the airplane to be flown in single player Career mode. The location would have to be fictional with the actual locations of III./JG301 being off map, but it’s not the first time that a bit of bending of history was done for gameplay purposes.

Online its a simple matter. Servers like Finnish Virtual Pilots or Combat Box could simply choose to add the airplane into the mix wherever they decide to add it though certainly it would be mixed in with the other rare late-war types.

And what is the point of it?

I’ve heard some ask what the point of offering this airplane was. With no bombers to intercept it seems like it has little use, except as we now know, it never really did get used for its intended purpose anyways. But that’s the historical justification and I think to really understand the offering here we turn away from history and more towards marketing and money.

Like it or not, we are in the twilight stages of IL-2 Sturmovik: Great Battles development. While an additional battle, focused aircraft set of 10 more planes, and ongoing development would have suited me just fine, it is clear that a new title developed with new technology is well underway and Great Battles will eventually quiet down and recede into flight sim history. Bearing that in mind, 1CGS are filling in some gaps and, ultimately, looking to make some money off of the current series utilizing well worn technology while they work on the next generation.

We’ve seen a variety of aircraft releases including the Bf109G-6 A/S, Waco Glider, Spitfire IXc and now next up the Ta152H. They have also indicated that a I-153, a late model Ju87 Stuka, Yak-3 and an La-7 are all in the pipeline. All easy aircraft for the team to built and all types that I think they will find a market to sell to. No bombers are listed of course because we know they are time intensive and it looks like they are trying to do offerings that balance time and money very carefully.

There’s also the matter of interest and this is where we talk a bit of marketing. Though there will always be veteran combat sim pilots who won’t find it particularly motivating, the late war “what-if” scenario has always been appealing to the more competitive dogfight oriented crowd. We may hear from these folks less often on the forums but I think they make up a sizable portion of the dedicated player base. Enough that I suspect the Ta152H will sell well for that reason alone. The possibility of flying the “ultimate” fighter with the best performance specifications is enough. It’s not a motivation that appeals specifically to me but I never discount that segment of the market.

Still others might fit into other categories. I myself have always been fascinated by the Ta152H, less by its performance and combat ability and more because of its significant wingspan and unique handling characteristics. A WWII fighter with a big engine and almost glider-esq wings evokes a certain aerodynamic fascination. It was never an aircraft that I manage to fly or fight particularly well in the old IL-2 1946 days, but it was one that was fascinating to experience all the same. I’d be ok with doing that again.


17 responses to “What will IL-2’s new Ta152H-1 be useful for?”

  1. It’s a fascinating aircraft. I’ve long been mesmerized by its extreme aspect ratio and unique dual injection systems. Definitely a buy for me, even if the platform is in its final months of active development.

    As for the historicity aspect, I’m not bothered by aircraft that saw limited service as long as they’re modeled fairly accurately. When a game is approaching the end of its life cycle, I think it makes sense to do something a bit more radical.

    I think 1946 went a bit too far with aircraft that were nearly 100% fake or speculative, like the Heinkel Lerche.

    Liked by 3 people

    1. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
      ShamrockOneFive

      Yeah this is very true. I agree with you too with 1946 going a bit too far. But this one is still within the realm of possibility. Fun enough for enough folks!

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  2. Raptorattacker Avatar
    Raptorattacker

    Do I sense a mild tone of ‘resignation’ to the inevitable my friend?
    I certainly feel a little on that front myself…

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    1. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
      ShamrockOneFive

      A little bit perhaps. When you get to the end of a products development cycle but there’s still a bit of life left I think it makes business sense to do what they are doing. But the flight simmer in me obviously would love more ☺️

      Liked by 2 people

  3. I think IL2 shot itself in the foot by being too rigid and not imaginative enough. I suggested on the forum years back that new interesting planes like the Hellcat and the Corsair would be very welcome and a lot of fun. I got smacked by “the team” for wanting to bring about the end of IL2 with my ideas of new planes like those mentioned. Seriously. They were so stuck in the “It has to fit! It has to have a map! It has to have campaigns!” mindset that they limited themselves too much. So instead of a Corsair which would have been a red hot seller, they offered a 10th and 11th and 12th version of the 109. No thanks.

    Meanwhile, DCS is pumping out every kind of map and plane, whether it fits or not, and people are lined up with their wallets ready to spend. For me, the sandbox is the winning formula. Just sell me nice planes, I’ll figure out how to have fun with them.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Raptorattacker Avatar
      Raptorattacker

      Yeah, I see your point. Thing is, there’s also a lot of kudos from me with their ‘stance’ on the historical themes, be it good OR bad ‘business sense’.
      I certainly get your point about having 37 versions of the Bf109 though!!

      Liked by 2 people

    2. I think a key part of the Il-2 Great Battles / Battle of Stalingrad appeal has always been that you pay $50 (or less on sale) and get a complete historical package fleshed out with 8 aircraft, relevant ground units, missions, and a map.

      Frankly, less-than-study-level aircraft sold individually in a sandbox would be too similar to War Thunder for my liking, and I’m not sure it would compete well commercially.

      I’m not sure that comparing 109s to Corsairs is completely fair. The 109s released later on seem to contain many recycled elements that probably cut development costs drastically compared to entirely new aircraft.

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  4. I won’t ever be buying the thing, but that’s not because of it’s lack of being able to use it as it was historically designed for… I’ve just never been enamoured by it, never liked the look of it, it’s an odd looking thing.

    However, I do think it will sell well. There are many Luftwaffle types that will jump all over it for sure, and of course there are the collectors who have to buy anything that turns up in the series.

    I’ll be interested to see how it fares in game though and will look forward to peoples reports on combat and usage etc.

    Liked by 1 person

  5. Flying Circus still needs a lot of work. There are still 6 planes that are needing to be done, which are the Sopwith Pup, Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter, Airco D.H.2, Albatros D.III, Fokker E.III, and Roland C.IIa.

    There is also the matter of making more collector planes to fill in the gaps for Flying Circus Pilot Career. Personally I’d like to see aircraft like the Airco DH.9, the Friedrichshafen G.III, Zeppelin R VI, the Roland D VIB and many more come to Flying Circus from all sides that were on the battlefield.

    I think there also needs to be more collector planes for both the Eastern Front. For the Soviets there should be the A-20C and G, I-16 Type 18, IL-2 1940 Model, IL-2 1944 Model, IL-4, LaGG-3 Series 4, LaGG-3 Series 35, P-39 D-1 and 2, P-39 Q-1 & 10, P-40M and N, P-63, Pe-2 1944 Model, Pe-3, SB-1 and 2 fast bombers, Tomahawk Mk.II, and the Yak 9 B, D, M, K, T, and U. For the Axis I think there needs to be the Bf-109 E-4, Bf-109 G-2 1.42 ata, Bf-110 C-4 and C-7, CANT Z.1007, Fw-189A, Fiat CR.42, Fiat G.50, Fw-190 Do-17 Z-2, A-4, He-111 H-2, Ju-87 B-2, Mc.200, and the Hungarian version of the Me-210.

    I think the Western Front needs more collector planes to fill in the gaps too. German planes like the Bf-109 G-10, Bf-109 K-4 C3, Do-217, Fw-190 A-9, He-111 H-20/22, He-162, Ju-188, and Ju-388. For the Allies I think there needs to be the B-25 and B-26 made playable, the P-38L, P-47 D-30, P-51 D-5 and D-20, Spitfire Mk.XVI, and the Beaufighter Mk VI.

    Look, I’m sorry about the rant. I know that they can’t do all of these planes considering the limited time, effort and money would be better spent on the new project. And I know that the bombers would take a lot of time, money and effort to complete, especially the B-26 because if it’s very intricate cockpit. So I respect their decision to move on from Great Battles when the time comes. However my argument is is that there is still a lot needed to be done with Great Battles. And it’s not like they will return to the European Theatre of War anytime soon with their new project otherwise they will be competing with themselves.

    The reason why I had models of aircraft dating from 1944 on this long list is because they would be vital to pilot career on the Odessa and Karelia maps, which would help get the maps to sell better. I also believe that there are many third party maps to come, covering various parts of the world’s biggest conflict, ranging from 1941 to 1945, so having a more diverse list of late war aircraft to fly should be considered as a high priority.

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  6. It’s a bit sad really to see the twilight for this series. I remember being amazed at the fidelity and graphics when it first came out. Seemed such a jump up. Now it just seems….tired and dated. Completely uninterested in these esoteric aircraft and endless D, G, or X reiterations of a model. I hope they are fully committed and working toward the next new simulation. I also wish they’d make the break from eastern front, as important as it was. Been done to death I think.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
      ShamrockOneFive

      You should definitely check out the article I linked about their next project. It’s not official yet but it’s clearly Korea 1950-53 – so we’re getting a change in location for sure.

      Liked by 3 people

      1. That is doomed to fail … outright there is not enough there for Sim gamers the Aircraft for the Korean war have been available in DCS for years now … only one server ever populated… there is too much reptations and not enough staying power in Korea.. you have the P-51 (in DCS) the Corsair (releasing this year) A1D (in productions DCS) Mig15 (in DCS) B-29s (only draw i see) Yak and La 9s ( not interesting enough for me to by the game)

        The F9F Panther ( meh) F-80 (meh) there is no meat to Korea it has no staying power not like DCS or IL-2.. Were are they going to go from there… They should have gone Pacific it was the only route. because if they go simplified Modern after they just have to compete against war thunder already which does it well enough in Simulation that it can actually compete and DCS is above it in depth and good luck taking on DCS. I mean Im sure they will be a following and ill give it a go if it looks decent i just dont see much more than an one and done … if anything they could have tried vietnam … but DCS is moving into that too.

        I think 777 has pushed themselves in a corner but not starting ww2 pacific 2 years ago when the community was asking for it … and now they are hemmed in with verry little options

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    2. To me it has always seemed like a troubled product with many missteps and successes over the years.

      The launch was marred by almost universally disliked “unlocks” / “experience points” and a host of other major issues.

      Around the time of the Kuban release and Bodenplatte / Tank Crew / Fling Circus announcements, it felt like the series was finally gaining momentum, but then it all culminated with only one more major WW2 product, which was underwhelming IMO.

      I hope that the new Korea product goes more smoothly.

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  7. If tthere’s ever more than 5 available total airframes on any map in any MP environment, I just don’t see what kind of game we are playing here.

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  8. Urgent Siesta Avatar
    Urgent Siesta

    Definitely interested in this one, even though it’s “just another” 190 😉

    To me, it’s different enough to justify having it available – it was a serious development designed for a very real problem that exceedingly few other aircraft/variants could handle.

    Whereas I feel like many of the other aircraft variants are very minor increments of what we already have across the series (e.g., the new Spitfire IXc).

    I’m looking for options that expand the gameplay in some type of meaningful way, and IMHO, this is one of them.

    Liked by 1 person

  9. Sorry to be the negative one but this is just a last gasp money grab. IL2 dev’s are worried about their new title … DCS is moving more and more into Warbirds with an overall more flexible game. They already have CV ops that work and span all the way from i-16 to 2007 variant of F-16 and are just filling in. In the past Korean war Flight sims don’t really hold up based on the limited aircraft used at the time and fairly static air war. For me i have not Touched IL2 in over a year and Flying Circus is just not a step forward. They missed their chance with heavy bombers and are now flailing … and if they take on DCS they will in fact loose because DCS is not competing with IL2. Hell the stuff coming forward from the IL2 BOB dev team in more interesting than what 777 is doing…

    honestly based on the coverage and sims DCS and MSFS 2024 to be released … That 777s next project is going to have the same customer reaction as Skull and Bones just did… unless maybe they release a WW2 Pacific game fully fleshed out in 18months… because DCS is closing that gap fast

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  10. […] If you are wondering what the type’s combat record was and what aircraft it shot down, I did write a piece about that a few months ago. Spoiler: No the Ta152H never fought bomber formations the way it was intended […]

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