The iconic tandem rotor CH-47 is Eagle Dynamics next module set for release and it has, like virtually every module before it, attracted quite a bit of discussion and even a little controversy. Eagle Dynamics have released a FAQ in the last few hours to help clarify some items as the project moves towards release.

Clarifying what CH-47 will have

The age old debate, at least in DCS World circles, has always been on the tension between what is included at the start of an early access release versus what comes later. The DCS: F-16C came to us in a pretty rough state while the DCS: F/A-18C was a little better but definitely lacked quite a few features that were added later. These early access products took years to develop and often served as the testbed for systems and features that we more or less take for granted. It looks like DCS: CH-47F will probably have a similar trajectory.

What we’ve learned from the FAQ is that the helicopter itself will have features that include multi-pilot multi-crew while door gunner multi-crew will come later. The gunner stations can be optionally fitted with M60 or M240H guns too which gives us some options. Not mentioned in the FAQ but visible in all of the marketing materials is the ability to do sling-loading, a feature that has long been part of DCS World’s capability.

There’s quite a bit too that will be developed later on down the line. Eagle Dynamics report that they are in the process of developing a novel logistics system. Here’s two key lines from the FAQ:

We can say that we are developing a novel logistics system for the CH-47F that dynamically allows the player to determine what is loaded and unloaded from the aircraft based on weight and area. Whilst this will not be available at early access release, it is a high priority for the CH-47F and other cargo/transport aircraft.

DCS: CH-47F FAQ

We stated above we will be developing a novel logistics system for the CH-47 and other cargo/transport aircraft, when we have more details to share on what this will entail we will be sure to share.

DCS: CH-47F FAQ

Critically, these are pieces that will come later on and that has caused some to say that they will hold off on getting the module. From that, I think there’s two pathways to go with this module as we have a pretty good pre-order discount of 30% which looks to be giving us a reasonably capable module that has capabilities and capacities (on a feature for feature basis) similar to DCS: UH-1 or DCS: Mi-8. Buying in now risks waiting months or longer for the logistics system to emerge.

What we don’t yet have in the FAQ or marketing materials are some of the helicopter’s other systems. Will it have a full avionics suite from the start or will some features be added later? We’ve talked in the comments section here on Stormbirds about the type having what appears to be a full flight computer which is something of a premium system in civil aviation simulation. If that and the rest of the suite of avionics are fully functional in the CH-47 at release it’s already cleared an initial bar of capability. Hopefully we’ll learn more details soon.

Fun and purchasing

While Eagle Dynamics own logistics system won’t be in place at launch, many multiplayer servers and single player missions already use various scripting systems to give an approximate capability for types like the UH-1 and Mi-8. CH-47 will surely tap into that after its initial release too. Similarly, I’ve had quite a bit of fun flying logistics in MSFS with the A300-600RF freighter and the C-160 Transall and it has no logistics system at all. The joy was all in the flying.

That said it’s also perfectly reasonable that some of you are going to want to put off purchasing the module. You may have been excited by the possibilities before and may decide that now is not the time to jump in. That’s ok too!

The key piece is that you make your purchasing decision informed on what features are coming and what is planned for later. If you decide that what is on initial offer is enough, it sounds like CH-47 might be quite a fun ride. If on the other hand you want to see what and how long it takes to sort out a novel logistics system, you’re being perfectly reasonable to hold off and see.

The more features that we see confirmed, the clearer that picture will be over the coming weeks.

One more thing

The other thing in the back of my head here too is that this is part of a bigger picture that is emerging. Eagle Dynamics has been long working on their dynamic campaign system which they have mentioned logistics is part of that system. Presumably then, what they are developing at a tactical level for DCS: CH-47 is hopefully also tied into a bigger effort to make it so that when dynamic campaign finally arrives that it ensures that logistics missions are just as impactful as a SEAD/DEAD mission as an example.

CH-47 isn’t the only logistics oriented helicopter in the sim either. The UH-1 and Mi-8 I have mentioned already but we also know that a C-130 is being developed as well. Hopefully by the time that module emerges into a releasable state, it’ll be able to take advantage of the groundwork already laid by the CH-47. The optimist in me thinks all of this will be cool. But it’s admittedly not something happening right now.


26 responses to “DCS: CH-47F FAQ gives us a sense of what comes after release”

  1. I think this may pair well with the Afghanistan map for various scenarios

    Liked by 3 people

    1. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
      ShamrockOneFive

      Absolutely. Just the chance to fly the CH-47 on that map flying back and forth between bases doing some sling loads will be a fun flight sim experience!

      Liked by 3 people

    2. “Maybe” 😉

      Liked by 2 people

  2. I would love to know to Capabilities of the FMC and the limitations of DCS in regard’s to a Navigation Database like Microsoft flight Sim ARINC / AIRAC. Will we have to subscribe to an External 3rd party? Many Questions and very little information. No other Module has been so been so Vaguely Advertised for pre Purchase.

    Highly detailed external and internal modelling, including cockpit and cargo hold
    Unmatched helicopter flight dynamics that only DCS can provide
    Fully interactive, VR-ready cockpit.
    Seriously?

    With the current Issue’s pertaining to RAZBAM(Let’s not forget VEAO) and ED is this even a safe Purchase?
    I hope this Situation works out I really do(My favorite module is the M2000). It’s an Aircraft that is very Interesting and can help the DCS Environment tremendously but as the person who controls my wallet, as a consumer I have to say No to Any other purchase’s until this company sort’s out it issues.

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    1. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
      ShamrockOneFive

      Really hoping we get some clarity on the avionics and other systems for sure.

      I think this is a safer purchase than a RAZBAM product for the moment. ED have stuck with their products over the years though rightly criticized for the slow pace of some updates. But I get the feeling that the current instability is casting over the market. Hopefully we can get some of that cleared up!

      Liked by 1 person

    2. IMHO, the thing to keep in mind is that this is an Eagle Dynamics in-house model, not 3rd party like the other two problematic cases.

      Liked by 2 people

  3. I’ve made peace with modules never getting past EA. As long as there is enough there to be challenging and fun, I’m cool. And in that light I am 100% pumped for the Chinook. I’ll be happy just to fly it around and have fun. And since there are no weapons systems, and no need to fight and fly at the same time, it will be easier to get a handle on the nav systems I think. The Chinook and the C-130 are my Big Two. The Phantom is somewhere down the list.

    But there has to be a resolution of some kind to the present woes with ED and RB. It’s a big black cloud hanging over the sim and there is no getting past that. If they expect me to drop $100 here and $100 there, then I want to hear that things are solid. No clarity – no cash.

    Liked by 3 people

    1. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
      ShamrockOneFive

      If I hear any news (hopefully good) I’ll be sure to report!

      Liked by 1 person

  4. I’m very interested in this module, but at $68 CAD, even with a 30% discount, that’s pretty steep for something that won’t have much use until the dynamic campaign is released. I’ve basically taken the stance now that I won’t buy any more modules until I see an imminent release date for the DC. I have plenty of other modules already and not enough time even for them, so I can wait.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
      ShamrockOneFive

      It’s a premium price for sure, even with the discount, and hopefully it comes into that role nicely as features are added. You can absolutely use mission scripts for single and multiplayer to give you some of the logistics experience but obviously not to the extent that a dynamic campaign can offer.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. EDs dynamic campaign needs to be added to their behind the sofa pile of forgotten projects. “Look ma, Supercarrier!! Ma, what’s a Vulcan? And combined arms? What’s that? Look here’s an old DVD box with a faded sticker saying “modern air combat. Coming soon!”.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
        ShamrockOneFive

        Supercarrier definitely has an issue with being finished. While what it has is quite good, there’s a good chunk of features that they haven’t yet delivered on.

        With dynamic campaign the problem goes a bit deeper. To make it work and be any good, they have to fundamentally rewrite the whole of DCS. We’ve seen the first steps last year with more expansive multi threaded support and other performance improvements and with some AI improvements. Much much more is needed.

        Play a bit of Liberation Campaign and you’ll see the limitations of what is currently in place. It’s going to be a long road that one….

        Liked by 2 people

      3. Which I do not understand at all. It’s 2024. How did they manage it with Falcon 4.0 waaaaaay back in 1998? They aren’t putting enough resources into it, that’s the real issue. Charge me for it, I’m ok with that. I’d much rather pay for that than another half-baked module.

        Liked by 2 people

      4. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
        ShamrockOneFive

        I’m not sure of the full story with Falcon. It’s not something that has been repeated but obviously it’s quite the challenge.

        We’ve heard comments that they have several developers working full time on it. I’m not sure if that includes some of these other core mechanics and performance improvements needed to make it work.

        Hopefully we’ll learn much more this year. My fingers are crossed. Frankly I’d also love to see some quick mission generating capability ala the AQMB from IL-2. DCS needs more gameplay.

        Liked by 1 person

      5. @Alan @ShamrockOneFive

        Regarding the Dynamic Campaign for Falcon BMS, I highly encourage you to listen to this interview Enigma just did with the developer of Falcon 4.0’s dynamic campaign.

        Absolutely unreal that it was essentially created by one guy…and the same guy is the one who leaked the source code. Legend status, confirmed.

        Liked by 1 person

      6. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
        ShamrockOneFive

        I’ll definitely have to give it a listen. I may have watched it before but …I don’t remember 🙂

        Liked by 1 person

  5. So I just bought it.

    Last week I (finally) bought the Phantom.

    And I waited all of 1 day before buying the whole dang Afghanistan map (oh, The Horror!!!).

    The Chinook is a cargo helicopter. It flies, and it moves stuff from one place to the other. I don’t care about armament, because I have a LOT of fun running “Slicks” in MP servers and the Chinook just isn’t used as a gunship IRL.

    I don’t even care about the completeness of the FMS/FMC. I had a BLAST in Hornet & Apache despite all the missing pages in their avionics in early Early Access. As long as the friggin’ compass & clock work, I’m good.

    Now, to be clear, I pre-order / Early Access because I know I’m going to buy the module anyway, and I want the discount (it adds up!).

    But mostly the limitations of Early Access have always been a worthwhile trade-off for the sheer joy of learning to fly a new module TODAY vs waiting literally YEARS for a “complete” module (e.g., Tomcat, Hornet, Viper, et al). I just can’t imagine still not having purchased Hornet just because it isn’t “finished”.

    Besides, waiting for the next new feature on a module is, for me, kinda like waiting for next week’s episode of a favorite TV show. I want to binge watch them all TONIGHT, but the anticipation ends up being part of the good experience.

    I’m not worried about ED & DCS World, so I’m going to keep Pre-Ordering, because I’m cheap that way, and I can always figure out how to have fun in any given module. Why wait? 🙂

    P.s.: the Razbam situation is somewhat concerning, but I have faith that cooler heads will prevail. And again, I waited A DECADE for Strike Eagle, and now I can actually fly it while “the boys” mend their fences. 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Good post!

      I’m just a bit worried about the ED & RB thing because we don’t really own stuff anymore. We kind of rent it. So even though it’s unlikely we would lose access to a module, my trust is limited given the nature of the “you buy it but we still own it” kind of commerce going on.

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      1. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
        ShamrockOneFive

        It’s the pitfall of the software as a service. It’s being improved and adding in capability all the time … so long as there are developers to keep it going. When that gets called into question it can make us all nervous.

        Still I think the platform as a whole is ok but I remain concerned about specific modules.

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  6. Early access means something very specific in eagle dynamics land. Back when the hornet was announced we thought EA would be a year or so. Many held out….

    That was 2018!!! It’s still not bloody finished.

    I’ve had a blast with it mind you, but ED need to get better at finishing their dinners before bringing out new courses.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
      ShamrockOneFive

      In principle I agree. Stuff needs to get finished to a particular state before things move a little too far down the line.

      On the other hand, I’d say Hornet is more or less finished. Yes I’m aware of the roadmap and how there are a few items they plan to do but I also get the sense that it will never be done. There’s always more to do or new info revealed that causes them to tweak something. A-10C is their most complete project and it’s still getting its share of updates too.

      A reasonable middle ground has to be there where ED doesn’t get too far ahead of themselves and moves onto the next thing but also we have to accept that complex projects like this will always have something to add or adjust. The important part is, and you said it, is to have a blast with them. And Hornet has been a fun ride, for me right from the start!

      Liked by 3 people

      1. “ED doesn’t get too far ahead of themselves”. Nail on head. They are stuck in a business model that says to survive they need to release 2+ modules per year. 

        That’s probably why most of their devs are on new modules and a relative few are plodding away at the core engine, dynamic campaign, Vulkan, AI invisible trees, God snipers, etc and which so much is soooo late.

        Once a module is released, the devs go onto the next cash cow and actually finishing a module goes to the B team who already have a 6+ year backlog.

        Not an easy problem to fix.

        Like

      2. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
        ShamrockOneFive

        Yeah though we don’t have the financials to see that’s the case it certainly looks and has that perception on the outside doesn’t it? It’s a tough spot and a tough market.

        Like

  7. I’ve been waffling back and forth about how I feel about the way this release has played out for a while now. In many ways, I feel like it represents the absolute best and worst of ED/DCS.

    Positives:
    – Incredible looking internal/external model
    – Amazing trailer
    – An aircraft that I can’t wait to jump into, start up for the first time, and fly around in awe at how cool it feels/looks

    Negatives:
    – Available for purchase with a shockingly limited feature list (even for ED standards and factoring in its mission set)
    – An FAQ that honestly raised more questions than it answered
    – Releasing a product that will ultimately be dependent on features that are likely 3-4 years away before it can realize its full potential
    – CM’s locking the very thread that was designed to answer community questions and foster discussions (this just happened 2 hours ago, by the way)

    I probably fall in the camp of a several in here (and likely you Shamrock) that will pick this aircraft up because I absolutely love helicopters (hell, I flew ’em in real life) but man, ED just seems to go out of their way to make it hard on themselves. Lessons just never seemed to be learned when it comes to setting realistic goals, communicating effectively, and understanding the community.

    This is not meant to be a ED/DCS is dying, they’re horrible post, by any means. I just wish they would stop constantly tripping over themselves, if that makes any sense.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
      ShamrockOneFive

      Feel the same way. There does seem to be an almost rushed element to this (even though the CH-47 has been known about for quite some time). The feature list will hopefully fill out soon but during the pre-order of course gives folks pause.

      I’ll probably love flying it. It looks like an incredible helicopter to fly so it’ll be interesting to check out!

      Liked by 2 people

  8. I’m in the buy now, (get the discount) and get the updates as they come. In the real military we were given the SA-80 rifle, advertised as ‘The great new weapon, fully tested” Within weeks, live combat showed it wasn’t stopping what it hit, not first time anyway. So using more rounds per target and man was it prone to jams…..and throughout the rest of my service….it was going to be updated.

    So ED/Heatblur and all the rest mimic real life. It has some capabilities…they will be increased.

    I say again, I trust ED more than I trust MOD

    Looking forward to it

    Like

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