I was surprised by the announcement that Eagle Dynamics are planning the development of an F-35A for DCS World. I’ve been reflecting on what this development means for the sim and have finally decided to put thoughts to key presses and write this editorial. We’re going to cover some ground here so buckle up!

Identity crisis

The most surprising thing about the F-35 for DCS World is that Eagle Dynamics intend to make this one of their “full fidelity” modules. We can talk more about what full fidelity means in a bit but let’s just take that in the broader context for now in terms of what DCS World’s identity is and how this might fit into that identity that the developers and community have shaped together.

DCS World for the longest time has been heralded as the sim that has pushed the boundaries for realism. The sim that was more unforgiving than the others, that had fewer helpers, and that emphasized deep understanding of aircraft systems for players and an even deeper understanding required for developers to bring us these aircraft. This all before a module was even remotely considered for the role. This had to mean that we had to be happy with older iterations of airplanes – even our most advanced options in the sim are a decade or two out of date.

It has become something of a refrain in the community by both the developers and echoed by us, the fans, that some aircraft were just not possible because of insufficient documentation. That has been used by Eagle Dynamics and by third party developers committed to offering high detail experiences to us – the demanding and discerning flight simmer.

But I think the bigger shock when you think about it is not that we feel like the DCS: F-35 is going to rely on some guesswork but perhaps the recognition that maybe this isn’t the only time this has happened.

Some things that we know over the years have been adjusted significantly include RAZBAM’s Mirage 2000C. This was clearly held up as high fidelity module when it came out but then underwent a significant overhaul to its systems and even to how the jet functioned when new information was made available thanks to a partnership with the French Air Force. Was it less of an experience before that? I thought it was great as it was but obviously it was more accurate after – was it higher fidelity?

Eagle Dynamics let us know before the P-47’s release that there were limited original sources for the P-47’s flight model on the account of many of those documents being destroyed sometime after WWII. Eagle Dynamics managed to produce a P-47 that seems to be generally well regarded in the sim warbird community thanks to do the data that they did have plus using quite a bit of computational fluid dynamics (CFD) to fill in the blanks. They produced a whitepaper on how they do their flight models back in 2020 if you’re interested in the details. I won’t pretend to understand it all but I think the core principle is such that if you have some reference data plus good aerodynamic information and have the raw shape of the thing, you can produce a good flight model from all of that.

Deka Ironworks got some eyebrows raised not too long ago about their J-8II project being based on the more accessible systems information in the “Peace Pearl” project. The airplane existed in theory but not really beyond that, yet this was essentially the only way forward for the group. They will, I’m sure, have to make some inferences on how all of it was intended to work together.

All of these examples are just some of the bigger items that we know about that combine public information, computer models, and best guesses together to make something interesting. It’s all plausible, its not fantastical, but it may not be completely the way that it actually is.

DCS World on the whole has a lot of challenges too with everything from how it handles flares and radar aspects to how they simulate their electronic warfare. A lot of this stuff is a bit lower fidelity than perhaps our loftiest of expectations. It’s been a refrain recently on r/Hoggit that War Thunder may actually now have a more accurate flare and heat simulation for IR missiles than DCS does. I can’t corroborate that but that’s interesting to consider.

Another module that is a bit of a mishmash of real and imagined is DCS World’s first module: the Ka-50 Blackshark. Based on a prototype helicopter, Ka-50 has plenty of simulated fidelity and yet it represents a limited production design that was later developed into the two seat Ka-52. Some of the capabilities added to Black Shark 3 really existed but are somewhat hypothetical in their usage such as the addition of the IGLA air-to-air missiles. A neat addition to the helicopter that adds interest and entertainment value but was more of an experimental fitting on the Ka-50 series if memory serves.

There’s a mix of real world fidelity and simulated guesses that have gone into DCS World’s earliest modules. There’s even been some creative liberties taken. For me, the F-35 made me go back and think about all of the compromises that came before and that will surely come here. All to create an engaging simulated airplane.

“F-35 is impossible” or is it?

Go back a couple of weeks and ask me if Eagle Dynamics were going to do a DCS: F-35 module and I would have said “no.” Given the old guidelines that I understood to be in place, it seemed unlikely. But now that they’ve said that they are doing it, I’ve been exploring the possibilities of what is possible and how much is out there to reference.

I saw some ill-advised comments out there including “nobody knows what the F-35 cockpit looks like” and “we have no idea what any of the systems do.” The first, is instantly disprovable with a simple Google image search. The second isn’t really the case either as there are plenty of public videos, often from tradeshows, where people are walked through how to fly and even operate some of the F-35’s systems in simulators that are purportedly setup to be the same as the jet.

I went looking and unsurprisingly, Military Aviation History on YouTube has a fantastic video showing us the simulator version of the F-35 cockpit complete with a walkthrough of a good number of systems. That includes sensors and weapons. I was actually kind of stunned at how much we’re now able to see in action.

If that all weren’t enough, we had a recent post by IndiaFoxtEcho on their Facebook page. The MSFS and DCS World developer have their own F-35 project for MSFS 2020 (and soon 2024) that is well regarded. They’ve done their homework and know how to develop for both sims thanks to the DCS: MB-339 and DCS G.91. Here’s some of what they had to say:

However, we have seen a lot of misinformed discussion about the potential “realism” that ED can achieve, as they declared it to be a “full fidelity” module and we’d like to clarify that we believe they can do an EXCELLENT job in terms of realism: contrary to popular belief, much of the required information on the F-35 air vehicle is publicly available (e.g. academic papers) and there are dozens of videos of cockpit simulators, showing the avionics and the pilot interface in great detail.

Moreover, a lot of the official aircraft documentation is APPROVED FOR PUBLIC RELEASE or UNCLASSIFIED (although some of the unclassfied documents, like pages of the flight manual, are actually parts of RESTRICTED documents) and can be easily found online.

Long story short, the F-35 is actually better documented than most people think – and it IS better documented than the F-22, and even (to a much lesser extent) than the Eurofighter.

That gives me a lot of reassurance that there is actually quite a bit out there and that together with just a few of the materials that I’ve looked at, which were all clearly generated by and aimed at a public audience, it seems to me that we know a decent amount about the airplane.

There is a caveat to all of that and again I turn to IndiaFoxtEcho to make this next point as well.

There are, however, some critical areas in the development, such as the actual performance of the radar and the sensors (that is CLASSIFIED) and the actual radar cross section (which can be, to some extent, simulated with commercially available tools such as HF-SS or CST).

Here is where the biggest challenge will be. But I also don’t think this is a new problem. How many DCS World modules do we have out there with radar ranges, as one example, that aren’t likely to be exactly what we expect them to be? There’s been countless arguments over the years on that issue alone. Eagle Dynamics and the third parties have been estimating and making all of this fit into the sim as best as they can for decades of DCS World and Lock On or Flanker before it.

It’s here where I think I can also safely say that if they do a rough estimate of what they think an AESA radar can do, based on public documentation and their estimate based on the simulations they already have in the sim, I think I can live with that. I wouldn’t know the difference if it was wrong.

There are some other interesting systems in the mix too. F-35 employs advanced jammers, something DCS World has historically not really touched very much (and may need to attempt further detail if they want to make the F-35 a little more real). It also has the Distributed Aperture System (or DAS) and the Electro-Optical Targeting System (EOTS). The sensors can, according to Wikipedia, pick out a ballistic missile at 800 miles and has a spherical sensor sweep around the jet that can help pick out ground vehicles, aircraft, hotspots and more. It’s like the targeting pods we already see on several DCS jets and then some.

And as classified as the details of these systems are, even Lockheed Martin shows off some of the capabilities right on their public website.

Is this all enough to build an extremely accurate simulation? I’m going to guess that more than usual will have to be done through educated guesses. Still, its not a total mystery and its one that with experience like ED has, can be speculated and inferred into something interesting and enjoyable for us flight simmers.

Does this change the “game”?

I do think this announcement does shift the ground under us a little bit, or it ought to.

The F-35 is just one airplane in a mix of aircraft in the DCS environment. It has for most of its lifespan been a bit of a mix of types of airplanes from all different eras and capabilities. The F-35 represents the first time that a so-called Fifth Generation aircraft will be in the sim. If we consider this from a multiplayer PvP experience, the F-35 is going to represent an outsized threat to the opposing players with the ability to see and react to the airspace unlike anything else in the sim.

I suspect it will be like the day after we first got Link 16 on the DCS: F/A-18C and suddenly I realized just how much I could see now thanks to the shared sensor information that we all now could see. The F-35 just amps that up a few more levels (and brings its own datalink too).

The response will be that some servers just won’t offer it, while others may find ways to restrict it or use it in a limited capacity. Still other servers will fully embrace it into the mix of aircraft. I can see it being more common on PvE scenarios than PvP for example and I think that’s ok. DCS has always been a sandbox environment, sometimes to its benefit and sometimes to its disadvantage, but it’s always let you play with whatever toys were available.

There’s another shift I want to talk about here as well and that is that we’ve jumped forward a decade (roughly) in what ED is going to be simulating. We’re going to hopefully see some additional assets brought forward that fit the era from ships to tanks to supporting and especially adversarial aircraft.

That together with the slightly more speculative nature of the experience suggests to me that the door should be open to types previously not considered possible. It may well be that several Russian types remain off limits for now (laws and other considerations) but we’re surely getting to the point where the Su-27, just a few years younger than the MiG-29, will start to “age in” to a spot where they can finally return to it.

There’s also a whole host of aircraft from the 1960-80s (some well known British types for example) that were off limits due to restricted documentation. I think these should potentially be on the table now. Let’s make a few educated guesses plus use the well known technology from the era that is available to provide for a mix of simulated realism and accuracy. This won’t make everyone happy but I think it will make more people happy than not.

Is this all good for DCS World?

This is the hardest item to consider because unlike my earlier points, this one is very much going to be a subjective view on how you see all of the stuff already talked about.

The F-35 will surely be disruptive to the sim just with its presence. It shakes the notion that DCS World modules are deeply researched aircraft relying on highly detailed sources alone, it brings in new capabilities that no other module has, and it moves the sim forward anywhere between 5 and 10 years in advancement of simulated hardware.

We’ve heard word that MicroProse plans to incorporate more modern types into their planned Falcon 5.0 release. If and when that project arrives on our computer screens, it may well offer some serious competition and so announcing the F-35 now may well be an attempt to try and get a leg up on the competition before it arrives.

It may also be a boon to the pocketbook for Eagle Dynamics. While older simmers will feel nostalgia for the Vietnam era jets like the F-4 Phantom, and slightly younger ones may feel similarly about the 1990s to 2005 era jets like the F-16 and F/A-18, a whole new generation of simmer has seen types like the Typhoon, Rafael, Gripen, Su-57, F-22, F-35, and F/A-18E/F take over the limelight. They want to load up DCS World and fly these newer airplanes and I understand that impulse. And even these, “new” aircraft aren’t new anymore. The F-35A’s first flight was 19-years ago for example!

I also want to put it out there that while we’ve all expended a lot of time thinking about the F-35, the core of the sim is what DCS World really needs to continue to work on. They have been but the pace has felt slow at times and everything from ATC to radio to AI needs to continue to evolve. An infantry-man with an AK74 shouldn’t be able to get a sniper shot at you from kilometers away, air defense batteries shouldn’t be able to acquire you behind a hill, DCS single mission generator is desperately needed to provide us with non-dynamic campaign quick missions, etc. They are working on these things but as much as any new plane is going to be the talk of the town, the sim really needs its core to be beefed up. That’s what really matters. We can choose to fly or not fly the F-35, we can choose to have it in our scenarios or not have it there, at the end of the day it’s another interesting module in the mix.

Final thoughts

No question that the announcement of this module is a bit of a surprise and one that has many of us questioning just about everything about DCS right now. As chaotic as that may be, I think it’s a healthy thing for everyone to maybe re-evaluate how we see our simulations and what they mean to us. For some, the F-35 is going to involved too much guess work while for others it offers hope to open the door on some types that may not be otherwise doable without a bit of guess work. I hear both of those arguments loud and clear too.

How it all shakes out, we’ll have to see, but I think we’ll be waiting for a bit as the project is reportedly aimed at 2026. I’m going to call it right now and say that I think maybe 2027 is more of a good guess? We’ll see where we all are then. If DCS can offer me a similar experience to the one shared on Military Aviation History with a flight model that’s based on whatever public info they have and a pretty good CFD simulation, I think it’ll be happy and interested to see what all of the fuss is about. And some folks won’t be interested in it and that’s ok too! For the record, I’m just as jazzed about this as I am types like the F-100 and the G.91. Everything that flies is of potential interest to me… I’m just like that!

Also, while we’re thinking about the future of the sim, I haven’t once mentioned DCS: F-15C in all of this which, after the dust has all settled, is going to be a great return to the classic air superiority fighter that was one of the backbones of the Lock On: Modern Air Combat series. How great will that be? With some new features it should be a blast to see return to the sim sometime within the same timeline.

That’s just about enough but I do want to sneak one more section in…

What other folks are saying

Lots of folks are posting their takes on all of this and there are some interesting points of view out there to consider. Enigma did one that had me thinking a lot while I was in the midst of writing my own take.

Always interesting to hear from Mover and Gonky bringing their real world experience to the table. I liked their comments in particular about how even the real world jets don’t always perform the way that they should and that very expensive simulators aimed at training real pilots aren’t perfect either. A solid dose of reality there.

AIR WARFARE GROUP and Pricklyhedgehog72‬ have an interesting discussion about the challenges and pitfalls of the addition of the jet into DCS World as well.

There are many other examples out there but all food for thought.


51 responses to “The elephant is in the room aka the DCS: F-35 editorial!”

  1. I think that one day we will see more Red Team fighter jets like the Su-27UB ‘Flanker-C’ in DCS World as well as the MiG-29M ‘Fulcrum-D’, Chengdu J-10, Shenyang J-11, J-15 and J-16. I think need more of a diverse selection of Red aircraft in general. I’d also like to see some Indian aircraft as well like the HAL Tejas Mk.1 though we may have to wait until at least 2035, which would be by then 20 years since it entered service.

    As for Blue Team modern fighters , I’d like to see the JAS 39A and E (would go well with the Kola/North Scandinavian map module) Dassault Rafale A and M, F/A-18E Super Hornet, but we would have to wait like another ten years from now for it to be declassified enough to be realistic enough. I would also like to see Eagle Dynamics make their own F-15E so it can be guaranteed completion, unlike RAZBAM’s F-15E. Wouldn’t you?

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    1. so my issue is that the F-35 is alot of time on a aircraft that is just outta the park compared to others. Let’s fill in the rosters a bit maybe focus on 4.5 gen not 5th. If I had the money I would pay them. Not to do it and put those manholes into the game itself

      Liked by 3 people

      1. I will admit that the F-35 is quite a leap in terms of technology. Maybe one day we’ll get the J-20, J-35, TF-Kaan, KF-21EX and HAL AMCA though I think we’d be waiting for them until like 2055! And by then I imagine DCS will be long forgotten and replaced by state of the art simulators.

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      2. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
        ShamrockOneFive

        It is a lot of time, but it may be a good move for bringing in some younger simmers. The F-35 has started rolling out to a ton of different countries so I can see people wanting the latest and greatest.

        But yeah I’d love to see some blanks filled in too!

        Liked by 1 person

    2. The real issue with more modern Russian planes seems to be that ED is afraid to get persecuted. It’s understandable that with the current war, and the aggressively way in which Russian courts go after people, they are worried.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Yes, they don’t want to catch a (kalishni-) cough.

        I stole that. 🙂

        Liked by 1 person

      2. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
        ShamrockOneFive

        I hear the preferred method these days is slipping out of a fourth floor balcony.

        Liked by 1 person

      3. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
        ShamrockOneFive

        Yep that’s the core of this issue. It sounds like they seek out advice before going after a module. The Hind and Fulcrum are both old enough. Early Flanker variants should age in within a few years assuming it’s a rolling date.

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  2. The thing I find myself thinking here is, everyone and their mother’s uncle is buying F-35A’s and B’s. They can’t possibly lock it all down. It just won’t work.

    So there must be information out there. Maybe not at much at thebF-16, but far more than other stealth combat aircraft.

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    1. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
      ShamrockOneFive

      That seems to be what IFT is suggesting and they’ve done the work to make their MSFS version a possibility. Sure, they didn’t have to do some of the things but most of that it’s not new for a sim like DCS.

      Liked by 1 person

  3. I was a little skeptical of the F-35 being declassified enough to actually be realistic but thanks to you and IndiaFoxTecho my doubts are no more. Can’t wait to learn how to fly it. And sorry about my ramble above about what I’d like to see in DCS, I just got a bit carried away there.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Believe me, I’m really excited to see this aircraft being developed to be in the Simulator, but also as an ex defence worker, I can understand the elements of secrecy attached, and wonder quite what will be revealed or indeed available to the developers. I have seen a really good Lockheed Martin film elaborating about a US navy exersise. This showed the F35 pilot goggles system, whereby the Pilot can use 360 degree cameras mounted around the cockpit to look around, and make the F35 cockpit effectively dissappear. If this really exists, then this would look great if this could be simulated. Personally, I can’t wait for this exciting new aircraft to be released.

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  4. the core game needs lots of love micropose is going to be a major competitor. I mean huge falcon 4.0 is a monster of a game with a dynamic campaign since what was it 1997?. They are moving into dcs market share with alot of things fans have been asking for ready to go with a newer graphics system and probably cleaner and more flexible codeing. I man they are bringing the f-35 as well with falcon 5.0. I need to do a little readership. But if micropose let’s 3rd parties make aircraft for it DCS will be in a bad way.. anyway they need to work on the base game alot… flairs ecm. Missiles need proper flight modeling like the aircraft get. They are falling behind even war thunder. I think they are looking for a parry on micropose and a quick cash grab but I think the time should be placed strongly into the game itself.. they even mentioned ground vehicles but GHPC got that covered. I believe that ED sat on their Laura’s too long and it has bit them hard. I was planning on getting th me mig 29.. while I may still I’m thinking it’s a waste with the F35 coming. Also I will buy the typhoon because I support heatblur. The amount of lazy explanation and shut up the decent erst got so advised left the ED discord. I believe it’s in their best interest to look at the competition and see if they can actually hold up to a new competitor. The more I read and look into things the about of third party coding that goes into mission making make me belive that it just may be too late… sorry about bad punctuation and spelling I scratched this out on my phone just before bed

    Liked by 2 people

    1. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
      ShamrockOneFive

      Competition should make this space a little more interesting, absolutely!

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    2. zealousdelightfully40b620f588 Avatar
      zealousdelightfully40b620f588

      Everyone seems to keep forgetting that the new Microprose has absolutely zero to do with the original one, or the team that made Falcon 4.0.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Yeah, I have my doubts whether they truly want to invest the money needed to make it truly good, given that they mostly publish indie games made by a small team/individual.

        Liked by 2 people

  5. the whole “the F35 breaks the game” argument is moot. The F35 was designed to be unfair nobody wants to fight a hot war fair.

    what this does do is throw a light over some of the nonsense that dcs has said in the past about reasons why certain things can’t be done.

    Hopefully this attracts more players and brings more money to the sim.

    and by god I wish they’d fix the f15e.

    good editorial btw. You should write more opinion.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. DCS is not a war, but a game, though. An overpowered fighter with no competition is going to very limited in use.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Apple. That’s the real core of the issue no mater what IFE says it’s a bad move there is not a single area except for 1990 desert storm which is filled out roster wise. Vietnam is on the way. In like 5 years for the map. The problem with DCS in terms of development they Focus on the short game while working on the long game. AS DCS is long in the tooth. They need to reverse that too many modules are still in early release especially from ED itself. They need to focus on the game and not mods. I would advise focusing on the game and reducing restrictions on aircraft f I r third parties seeing as they are planning to do the F-35 on crums and extrapolation… plus even if they put out the F-35 it’s still DCS the amount of book time will limit it. I won’t buy anything I can’t also use online .. and seal clubbing is for 9 yr Olds

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      2. Yeah, my ideal would be if they would create a roadmap for an entire setting, with full-fidelity planes, low-fidelity planes, AI-only planes, a map, etc.

        They could then still work on multiple settings in parallel and take a long time per setting, but then there is at least an intent to deliver a coherent set of things for that setting.

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  6. Sorry to be nitpicky, but it should really be “Gripen” (being a Swede it is of some importance :-)) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_JAS_39_Gripen )

    Agree with a lots of you points in this article.

    My biggest fear is really that that the whole electronics warfare area is very much underdeveloped (and very secret), yet it is one of the biggest reasons for existence for the F-35 in the first place, and one of big the advantages compared to Gen 4.X fighters. On the other hand, perhaps that will force some general improvements in this area…

    I will admit I’m more looking forward to the Eurofighter and the F-15C, being one of those “slightly younger ones”…

    Liked by 1 person

    1. I would really like to see a Saab Gripen as well. Don’t care if it is an A or E I just think DCS needs one, especially for the Northern Scandinavia/Kola map.

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    2. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
      ShamrockOneFive

      Nitpick away! I knew that and somehow managed to put the extra P in there.

      I didn’t mention it but I do wonder if the F-35, like the F/A-18 and F-16 before it, will be an opportunity to tighten up some of the work on radar and EW.

      Eurofighter should be quite fun too!

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  7. I think it’s important to know what to expect, and to know who is expecting it. The “DCS community” in general, if there really is such a thing, has very high expectations. At least that’s the impression you get when reading a bit on the DCS forums and looking at some YouTube videos. How accurate that reflects the expectations of the average DCS player? I don’t know. I imagine the “yell often, yell high” factor is rather substantial, but only a small minority is yelling. I think the average DCS player has a much larger scope than DCS somehow is “all and everything”.

    At the same time one has to look at the business model of ED. The game itself is free, you only pay for modules, and you pay only once. This means that the existing DCS community who already got all the modules, isn’t the main target for ED. The main target is new players who potentially will buy all the modules over the next 3-5 years. They have no clear expectations of the F-35 module or DCS in general for that matter, but what they will get will go far beyond their imaginations, well, at least for some years.

    I don’t think the F-35 will change anything for the majority of DCS players. It will give the illusion of operating the real thing just like any other module, perhaps even better. For ED however, it’s a real big thing. It will be a major part of the income for the next 10 years at least, potentially much longer.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
      ShamrockOneFive

      The business side of this is absolutely a key point. I was thinking about writing that but I was already thinking this was too long of an editorial.

      If F-35A is a success, I can see them selling add-ons that cover the B and C model as well with integration with Super Carrier and so forth. I can see that all being quite popular in the way that multiple variants of 737 and A320 are sold in the civil sim market.

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    2. Very well said. The F-35 uses a pilot interface that literally took the electronic trends that the youth of the time were familiar with and incorporated them into the base design. There is a very large player group in the sim world today that came into our world through MSFS and they absolutely love the F-35 because of its intuitive nature of operation. Also, it can kick ass. So if ED can offer the ability to use those advanced systems to lay waste to “real” targets, it stands to reason that the draw would be irresistible to a group that could represent a substantial return on the investment.
      In the end, this is really what is important to all of us. If we don’t want the F-35 to be in a particular battle, we can always play another server but we all need ED to continue on in a profitable manner and I really think that F-35 will help them with that.

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  8. Good article! For my part, I’m all for it. If it’s fun and it’s cool and it feels right, I’m happy to have it. For me, DCS is the best flightsim even for non-combat flights. I spend far more time free flying in DCS than in FS2020, and the F-35 is a cool airplane and it will be fun to fly.

    If I want unforgiving realism, I’ll go to work. If I want a cool flightsim experience, I’ll fire up DCS.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
      ShamrockOneFive

      Yes absolutely. I do love to just go flying and take it all in. It’s something of a miracle that any of this works at all.

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  9. I won’t be buying it that’s for sure… not because I think it’s not possible to model it correctly or anything like that, it’s because I’m not interested in it.

    Same goes for that Italian thing, won’t be buying that either, it doesn’t interest me.

    For people that crave for those aircraft I’m glad they are able to get them and enjoy flying them…

    The F-100 though? that is something I will definitely be looking into!

    Liked by 3 people

    1. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
      ShamrockOneFive

      I’m looking forwards to the F-100 too!

      Liked by 2 people

  10. The basic cockpit interface isn’t a secret. The US government isn’t worried that Chinese fighters copy it and have a slightly more ergonomic design than otherwise.

    What they do worry about is knowledge about the capabilities of the (advanced) weapons systems, radar, stealth, performance of the plane, etc. These are all still really important if you want to create a full-fidelity plane.

    PS. This is also why real pilots of modern planes tend to not want to play in public, since they may divulge information by trying to use their weapons at a certain distance, or such.

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    1. great point I think thr F35 is just going to be a leaked F-15c less manuverability more sensor rang and invisible outside visual then they will on switch the radar like their randome. Chance flairs… why has that not been fixed yet?. I’m really looking forward to the F-15C

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      1. ment tweeked not leaked lol

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      2. You actually used a perfect example. The F-15C is EXPORTED FOR SALE, just like the Joint Strike Fighter. Thats the difference. It means that 90% of the jet is not a secret, its presented at industry-shows with a “Buy me” sticker. The last 10% is country-specific and is secret.

        So, something like the F22 Raptor, which we do not export and keep only for USA, is an example of a jet we can never get info on. The same with the F14 tomcat really.

        The reason we could do the Hornet, was that about ten years ago we started selling the jet to allied countries. (the viper has been sold for 20 years already)

        there is no big conspiracy, this is how even the military does simulators, whereby they make one for allies (omitting US-specific systems like ECCM) and one for our pilots that is top-secret.

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      3. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
        ShamrockOneFive

        Having the type be an export success may indeed help out for public references.

        More than ten years for the Hornet. Canada, for example, has been operating the CF-18 since the 1980s. Always impressive to see ☺️

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  11. Thank you for this article Shamrock, as usual you have one of the most balanced rational takes in the community! you truly never disappoint.

    I relate very much to your thought process, I was also puzzled and distrustful when I saw the announcement but upon doing more research and seeing what some in the community had to say I became much more optimistic. I also love that you pointed out the approximations in other modules, really shows how a lot of guess work goes into every module even if this one will have more than others.

    I also liked your point about MP, there’s a lot of doomerism about the f-35 and MP but we have seen various servers cobble a balanced scenario out of the menagerie of planes available in DCS and I don’t see why they can’t do the same with the 35.

    I still don’t know if I’d buy it because I’m more into slightly older airframes despite being in the younger demographic. I like airframes with more history behind them but the unique capabilities of the f-35 are certainly intriguing.

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  12. Shamrock, hello and thanks for this article. I think that maybe they have been developing in secret this module for the Airforce and decided to make a lighter version for the public… who knows

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    1. That seems unlikely, since these planes get sold as a package deal with simulators, training, etc. So both the US forces and non-US buyers will get simulators from Lockheed Martin.

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      1. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
        ShamrockOneFive

        True enough but we have seen DCS used for team training with multiple “lower cost” simulators in multiplayer environments. They can setup dozens or hundreds of these versus one F-35 sim from Lockheed directly.

        As I understand it, this is what the AdA was using the M2000C module for.

        Liked by 1 person

    2. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
      ShamrockOneFive

      That’s one idea that has been floated. It’s certainly possible.

      We know from other module development that it doesn’t have to be 100% to facilitate training experiences as with the AdA and M2000C.

      Like

  13. Wingcommanderdarkwolf01 Avatar
    Wingcommanderdarkwolf01

    Do you plan to review indie flight sims like Nuclear Option and Helicopter Gunship DEX at any point?

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    1. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
      ShamrockOneFive

      I am working, slowly, on an article that is an overview of a bunch of other sims on the market. It may end up reporting a bit on each them from time to time but right now my challenge is that there’s only so much time I can devote to this and covering the four to five plus many of the associated third parties that support them is already a bit overwhelming. Look for something in the next couple of months as I write something up.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Wingcommanderdarkwolf01 Avatar
        Wingcommanderdarkwolf01

        Thanks I will.

        Liked by 1 person

  14. I know i posted Lot on this topic an I am blatantly against it as they could fill out alot of other things but I would like to commend both shamrock and community members for the wonderful conversation where opposing views can be shared and discussed openly and civilly. So thanks to all of you even on the ed discord I get shut down rudely by mods because as one mod said “it’s not fun hearing peoples negativity “. I don’t know how shutting down negativityve reactions and allowing personal attacks against those who do by the mods helps communication. But hey I love it here people communicate more and attack less… so thanks all

    Liked by 1 person

    1. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
      ShamrockOneFive

      I appreciate the discussion as well. As long as people are bringing forward various viewpoints, things are good. When things descend into the personal, then it gets out of hand.

      I can see a lot of different viewpoints on the introduction of the F-35 and I’m sure we’ll be taking about this more as we move closer to its release.

      Above all, glad to see options out there for lots of sim pilots. Fun to be found and had!

      Like

  15. It is all rather simple. There is no doubt that the F35 will bring in money, which is the main point, which in turn supports the platform and allows for further development on the core. If you don’t like it, don’t buy it and don’t fly it. Each server can decide what to allow and what not to allow. If you like it, you can fly single player missions and find MP servers that allow it. One of the biggest needs of DCS to remain sustainable is to grow the user base, and I think the F35 can help with that. Eventually new users of the F35 will grow tired of it and want to try out the F4 for a change… Yeah, I am not overly interested in the F35, but then the idea is growing on me.

    As far as all the “fidelity” and “not enough public documentation”… arguments, we all knew it was just a deflection to not bother with modules that they didn’t see as profitable (Though I would totally buy a Thud.) Was anyone fooled into really thinking that DCS was dedicated to only “true” fidelity? Money is fidelity.

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    1. I think they nees to finish what they have started before starting two new airframes..

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      1. I know they have multiple teams but they have things in early access for years.. I would prefer using randome numbers 3 teams of 10 then 6 teams of 5

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  16. I am extremely cynical about the justice that they can do, or indeed whether it is a good idea. They will be able – just maybe – to model a Bl.2B with a lot of critial tech removed, but anything more advanced would simply and rightly be banned. Yes, cockpit pics exist and some HMD references, but this is aircraft where strengths are 70% under the skin. I have written and briefed LM competitors on likely what it can do with what and where it is going, but that is educated assessment with gaps filled; there is NO WAY that ED will get much more than LM’s propaganda department data, and boy does that company love its propaganda (read: outright lies).

    There is also the fact that the ‘A’ will not be much fun to fly. It’s T:W is nothing special, max of 1.6M is lightly loaded on a good day. Service ceiling is nothing special and it is not exactly agile. Range is good for ‘A’ and ‘C’, but latter is more interesting for naval ops and ‘B’ is unique in the modern world. A Viper, M2K etc will be more ‘fun’

    It has the potential to be a significant playa in DCS if low-RCS and a ‘best-guess’ AESA are modelled, but that will also be a lot of vague info with Jurassic part DNA from something else.

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    1. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
      ShamrockOneFive

      One of the things I’ve been thinking about is just how much guesswork already goes into modules. The M2000C for example had quite a substantial change to how it worked as more information became public. That was even just pushing buttons in the cockpit.

      For the purposes of realistic yet still entertainment focused flight simulation, its probably enough. But, you’re absolutely right that there will be guesses involved for sure.

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    2. I think you have a good and balanced point of view. This aircrafts main draw is the highly secret radar and stealth systems. These are even classified on age B-2 the best they will be able to do on the module is WAG it (Wild Ass Guess).

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