The latest discussion around the DCS World community right now is focused primarily on the pricing of Heatblur’s now up for pre-order DCS: F-14B(U). The module release is an upgrade available for the previously released DCS: F-14 Tomcat (featuring the F-14A and B) and Heatblur are asking $49.99 USD for the update. Following last Friday’s announcement, discussions in the community have been ongoing on the price and value of the upgrade and Heatblur has responded to some of the discussion with a lengthy thread. Let’s have a look at the issue.

On pricing, value, and features

DCS: F-14B(U) has certainly stirred up a lot of community commentary and I’ve seen many comments on Facebook, Reddit, and here on the blog with varying viewpoints on the upgrade and on the pricing.

On Saturday, IronMike from the Heatblur team posted a rather lengthy response to a lot of community commentary. The response goes through some of the key points that have come up in discussion with response on nearly a point by point basis.

IronMike had a lot to say but I do want to zoom in one two aspects of the discussion because I think they are likely at the core of the various discussions. Value and price.

DCS: F-14 Tomcat featuring two (and soon to be three) variants of the F-14A and one of the F-14B as well as campaigns, an aircraft carrier, a soundtrack and some other items are currently on at a regular price of $79.99 USD. If you take that and add up the $49.99 USD and you get $129.99 USD. So assuming you bought the F-14 at full price and then the upgrade you’re paying $130. If you get the ultimate edition bundle which includes both the F-14A/B and the new B(U)… you pay $98.99. Obviously that’s $30 cheaper for new players coming in.

IronMike responded on that point with the following.

So you will have to please forgive us, if we search for ways to put older products on sale or into bundles to incentivize new folks joining the community and also expanding the market. Only a growing community is a stable community. I find it extremely selfish and bewildering when some ask that the Ultimate Edition price should have been higher, to even out what they paid. De facto complaining that others pay less. Showing so little solidarity to folks new to the community (or a specific product line), really makes me sad, guys. We always tried to treat you the same way, when you were new. This is why we kept offering sales and bundles, like the triumvirate bundle, etc., repeatedly, (and adding always so much for free) even if the size of the market does not allow us to hold as many sales and as steep sales as a AAA game could. 

IronMike on the DCS World forums

Of course, the difference between is a bit less if you did the original pre-order back in 2018 at $69.99 USD (only $20 difference now) or bought the aircraft on sale during one of the more recent discounts.

The other part I wanted to specifically quote and draw out was the discussion about what has been done with DCS: F-14B(U). I view pricing of a module as a function of “value to the consumer.” Does it offer enough stuff to be willing to pay for the update or not?

Here I think the core of the issue is not specifically the price but rather the understanding of value. Even with the feature list released, I was still very interested to hear from the developers about the kind of effort that they put in to make this variant of the F-14B. IronMike summarizes nicely what the F-14B(U) brings to the table right here:

We had to re-do the flight controls practically from scratch, giving you a completely new FM experience in the aircraft – it is definitely not “just a layer on top of the old FM” – we had to make enormous changes to the cockpit, almost starting from fresh, both front and back, the entire re-work of textures and updating the art, not to mention a whole – not only – change in systems – but philosophy of the aircraft in how systems interact; a completely new nav system, new animations, new models, new avionics, new RWR, PTID, new screens, new panels, new HUD communicating with all these new systems, full Lantirn integration, JDAMS, Mission Data Loader system, new effects, backporting select Jester 2.0 features, in game browser elements, in game manual, gun camera, imaging system, a completely new flight control system, and all of that for 2 cockpits and with multicrew and teaching it all to the JESTER AI, new character customization and who knows what all I forgot rattling this down, and then applying all of which is applicable of that to the A/B as well, again, for free, on top of it. Well over a year (and more) of dedicated work went into it, as always with the intent of raising the bar.

Reading about the F-14B(U) before and now, thanks to this summary, has me really curious about just how different the F-14B(U) will be. It’s certainly more than slapping a couple of screens in thanks to the new digital augmentation system, JDAM, mission loader, new RWR, and all of the other items listed. That’s “not nothing” and at the end of the day. I, and all of you, have to determine if all of that is worth the $49.99 USD upgrade or not.

For some, I suspect that none of that would move the needle for them while others are very much ready to drop the cash for everything that this adds.

There is also excitement to be had for current module owners. DCS: F-14 Tomcat is still slated to be getting a whole bunch of new features as it comes out of early access and into life as a fully released module. Flying the Tomcat has never been as good as it is right now no matter if you own the original release and are sticking with it or if you’re committed to learning a significantly updated variant.

The discussion on this continues! Read the full statement from IronMike here.


32 responses to “Heatblur responds to community on F-14B(U) pricing, provides more details”

  1. The F14 is my favorite aircraft and I absolutely bought the best pre order package when it came out. (Pre ordered the F4 as well) Sadly my DCS time has been more limited and I wonder if I’d actually fly the F-14B(U) enough to justify the cost. It it was $25 I probably would but at $50 I am not so sure. I also mostly fly the A model.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
      ShamrockOneFive

      That limited time thing is what gets me! There’s so many good modules to experience.

      Like

  2. Ollifreund Popcorn Avatar
    Ollifreund Popcorn

    As for pricing, the F-14 has always had it‘s special role. I think in 8 years it‘s been on 50% sale only once (correct me, if I‘m wrong).

    I wonder what this new FM is all about? DCS models have a reputation of being very precise and realistic. Now if the new FM is so much better than the old one, the A-model should get an update too. For free, just in order to show the customers: We charge you, we hear you, we respect you, and with us you get what you pay for.

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    1. SemiDesperado Avatar
      SemiDesperado

      As I understand things, the flight model of the F-14B(U) is not intended to be “better” but different than the F-14 A/B. This is because the model used a fly-by-wire system that didn’t exist when the A/B variants were developed. In order for the B(U) variant to be authentic, they had to redo the flight model to factor in that system But you would not want them to apply that flight model to the A/B because it would not be authentic to those variants.

      Liked by 1 person

    2. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
      ShamrockOneFive

      So the F-14B(U) has a digital stability augmentation system to replace the analogue stability augmentation system. Heatblur goes into a bit of detail in their pre-order video on it but ultimately what it does is tidy up the F-14 in certain regimes of flight. That seems to have required a significant refactoring of their flight modeling for the F-14 as a result.

      The F-14A/B flight model is still a top notch standard. And we’re seeing some nice updates rolling in shortly.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Ollifreund Popcorn Avatar
        Ollifreund Popcorn

        Thanks guys! I was unaware of the SAS in the F-14, so my argumentation on this did not make sense.

        Liked by 2 people

  3. Happy to pay heatblur they always do a good job. I’d like to see them take over dcs entirely. Keen to ensure they are paid properly to continue with new projects.

    Things cost what they cost. It’s an expensive world at the moment. Heat blue is just about the only thing keeping dcs afloat at the moment.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
      ShamrockOneFive

      Things are certainly expensive right now aren’t they. Inflation hits everywhere including in sim modules. I am keen to make sure that both consumers and developers are getting a pretty fair deal and here it seems reasonably justified… I think we could quibble over the exact pricing (as a community I mean) but certainly I want to see devs compensated so they keep making cool things.

      Like

  4. BTW… excellent header photo : ) very nice

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    1. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
      ShamrockOneFive

      Just one of the ones that HB sent around with the pre-order announcement. I feel like you have a special connection to it? 🙂

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      1. no… not at all — i just like jet pics

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      2. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
        ShamrockOneFive

        That probably goes for a whole bunch of us! Yes, absolutely, great shot for sure!

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  5. HB really has bent over backward for us over the years – we’ve gotten many upgrades just as a matter of course, at absolutely no cost whatsoever – its sad they’re being subjected to so much abuse and ire from the community now : /

    Liked by 2 people

    1. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
      ShamrockOneFive

      It seems go around from time to time within the community. They really put a lot of extra effort in with the F-14A/B and set a very high standard. This new effort is a bit more unexpected but I would have thought would be more welcome.

      Like

  6. Pricklyhedgehog72 Avatar
    Pricklyhedgehog72

    I was rather shocked at the reaction. Having owned the original A/B variant since its release, and seen numerous upgrades, changes, and improvements I feel I’ve got my money’s worth. As a business decision this pricing point and bundle discount totally makes sense by looping in new customers. The cost of these premium titles is getting very expensive, and I don’t begrudge new customers having a buy in incentive.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
      ShamrockOneFive

      I certainly feel like I got my money’s worth out of the F-14A/B. We’re getting yet another variant very soon too and I sometimes forget as well about the campaigns that shipped with it. Heatblur certainly put a lot of value in there.

      Liked by 1 person

  7. This market is so small, HB’s products are so good, and that aircraft is such a legend that I have no issue with them charging a premium for it. I’d even pay full price again when (!) we get an F-14D.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
      ShamrockOneFive

      I like that enthusiasm! 🙂 I suspect they were able to get just enough to make the B(U) a possibility when the community was asking for the D model. But I like it nonetheless!

      Yes, it is a small niche market and we do sometimes pay a bit of a premium for it.

      Like

  8. Bottom line is: Heatblur deserves it. The new F-14 gadgets, instruments and capabilities deserves it.

    These devs exhales passion on every module they’ve released. I’m still impressed with the Phantom to this day.

    Devs are not peoples slaves. They need and deserve revenue on these new endeavors.

    This or we’ll never get to see new variants for the current DCS modules. Always a new airframe here and there and stuck in a single era.

    I’m happy and eager to get the B(U).
    I’ll 100% get and pay for the D if it ever comes as well.

    This module have served me so well the years I owned it. It would feel DIRTY receiving the B(U), which is a side step to the D btw, for free.

    For who don’t know. The B(U) is a direct sibling to the D having the multirole smart bombs capabilities. The D is less on a few areas, but having the punch into A-A with a better radar and weapons for it.

    Liked by 1 person

  9. The DCS franchise, including its third party partners, have no competition. This is an objective fact. So if people want the experience, they pay the advertised price. These people know what they are doing. They are charging a market rate and people are paying it. They are getting paid for their time and effort for developing their product. That’s all there is to the discussion. I guess its cute that IronMike has the patience to engage like this. I wouldn’t. Maybe some of these crybabies should cook up their own high fidelity combat sim.

    Liked by 1 person

  10. Over at Star Citizen they sold the Odin for $5000. Just saying.

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    1. It’s crazy how the cost of most Star Citizen ships easily eclipses the cost of even the most expensive DCS/flight simulator DLC (the median price is $180-$250). Of course it’s a completely different business model and type of game, which I don’t want to go into the details of right now.

      Still, when I consider the cost of a plane in a flight sim, I often make the comparison to a ship I’ve purchased for Star Citizen, and the world all of a sudden makes less sense lol.

      Like

      1. You are right the Odin was 5000 dollars for warbond and 5900 for non warbond version. But with Star Citizen we can atleast melt ships. Would love to melt some Razbam planes.

        Liked by 1 person

  11. I don’t have an issue with the price and picked it up. I don’t fly it as much as I do the Phantom, but I really enjoy jets of that era. IronMike, Cobra and the rest of the HB crew have always been straight shooters and engage with the community, which I appreciate, and I have no problem supporting them.

    Like

  12. I don’t really follow community drama outside of this blog (I have enough other hobbies), but surely someone must have brought up the point that if you did pay full price for the F-14, you probably did so years ago, enjoyed it (or had the opportunity to enjoy it) this whole time, which means you got value from it that someone considering the bundle now would not have had.

    I would expect that most people who haven’t bought the Tomcat yet never would have picked it up for full price anyway, unless they were brand new to the sim and just discovered it. The only people I’d consider to have a legitimate complaint about the “bundle vs separate” price difference would be those who never buy early access as a rule and who picked up the module during that brief week-or-two window between when that happened and the upgrade went on sale.

    IMO maybe they should just lower the price of the base Tomcat to $53 permanently, though I don’t know if ED ever does that (the F/A-18C is still $80 for example).

    Liked by 1 person

  13. I’m disappointed by the tone of the letter, accusing the existing customers of being “selfish.” The tone of the article assuming everything good of Heatblur and dismissing legitimate debate is disheartening and biased. I get it. Some people have lots of free cash and love the F-14 on matter what. It’s fine. Just understanding what “value” is vs “cost” is important concept in life not just in video games. “Cost” is the work they put into making it. “Value” is what it’s worth to the individual customer. They are basically unrelated to one another, except that if you want to sell things they have to overlap at some point. The “value” of this for me is maybe $20. Other than that, I just won’t get it. It’s not “insulting” the creators. It’s just not worth it to ME. Them assuming that it’s “valuable” just because they spent a lot of time on it is ego-centric and selfish themselves.

    Some people like Russian aircraft. Some like props. That doesn’t make them “selfish” for saying they won’t buy an F-14. It doesn’t make an F-14 “valuable” to them if they will never play it.

    If they want to incentivize “new players” then just have a “new player discount” for the first Heatblur purchase of say $20 to ANY product, then that would be a better, universal way of doing that.

    Getting angry about people pointing out a bad policy decision doesn’t generate anything productive. It’s divisive not inclusive.

    They should have:

    1-Had a “Heatblur discount” for newbies, not on a specific module.

    2-Sell the module as a “stand alone” using the code from the original F-14B for new module cost. There’s no need to force people to bundle the modules together.(Potentially with an F-14D version since the F-14BU is basically an F-14D when done, they have done 90+% of the work), like they did with the A/B if they want to market it even better.

    3- Don’t use “upgrade” at all in marketing and sell it as a “new” aircraft entirely, just like no one expects you to have to have the A-10A to get the A-10C. It’s a totally different standalone that doesn’t require Flaming Cliffs.

    Blaming the customer for them not doing these things and getting blowback is just counter-productive.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Urgent Siesta Avatar
      Urgent Siesta

      I’ve been flight simming for almost a decade now.

      Literally hundreds of addons from DOZENS of developers across 5 different simulators.

      I’ve never been offered an addon upgrade where I feel the DEAL was unfair to me as an existing customer.

      Until now.

      Remember all the drama over the PMDG 737 v2024 upgrades? I paid them without a second thought.

      There was an X-Plane dev who charged full price for their XP12 upgrade. Because it’s such a fantastic addon, I paid it.

      So what’s the difference here…?

      Everyone got the same deal – new customer, existing customer – EVERYONE.

      And yeah, the tone of HB’s letter makes it sound like we should feel guilty. Really…? I’ve been through enough gaslighting in my life – I don’t need it from my entertainers now, too. 🤣

      So, yeah – I’m gonna buy this upgrade because I value it enough to pay for it.

      But at the same time, I’m not going to reward HB for overcharging an existing customer here.

      And so for their pending MSFS addons, which I buy just to support the “poor” little HeatBlur devs and ensure that flight sim noobs get to be exposed to the genre, my wallet is CLOSED.
      That money is going to a team like AzurPoly and or Blackbird Sims.

      Pound sand, HeatBlur.

      Like

  14. Expensive upgrade for DCS compared to Star Citizen with a 5000 dollar ship its a bargain.

    Like

  15. My main issue with this is heatblur’s response. Just set your pricing and stand by it, don’t try to weasel your way and gaslight me into thinking you’re NOT charging me more than a new player, it’s utterly disrespectful.

    Like

    1. ShamrockOneFive Avatar
      ShamrockOneFive

      The whole thing was a weird one with some community members wanting difficult projects for free (some people seem to think systems programming is easy) and then Heatblur not quite balancing the pricing for long term owners with new owners. There’s a ton of nuance in between of course but yeah I’m kind of glad that we’ve moved past that part and the folks who are really enjoying the upgraded avionics just cruising along with it.

      Like

  16. Plz stop saying its a small niche because DCS isnt a small developer anymore, maybe 10 years ago, but since than DCS became huge to the point is being sold to real academies to train pilots with basics like discipline, muscle memory with procedures and so on, and to MANY of other virtual and real pilots around the world. Some spend more and some spend way less with DLC´s, DCS became actually a sensation among aviation enthusiasts and isnt a small Niche(come on now), millions around the world use it and is that kind of “game” that never goes out of style like most triple A Games after 1-2 years, DCS is the opposite it keeps growing and Growing. I love DCS to the Core, the work of ED the Third Party developers, sometimes done by 2-3 guys, DCS is actually Huge around the world so plz Stop saying its a small Niche, the prices need to be high because it is done with high- HIGH quality, its expensive because it takes a lot of 3D work, modeling the planes and all the details around the Jets frames and then you have the worse and harder part to code – the physics and all the instrument calculations avionics etc…that is the most accurate you can find in a SIM these days and thats why its expensive and its ok to support the people who do it. I have spent surely more than 1500euros in DCS but i have all of the maps most of the planes most of the campaigns and it was worth it i have to say because is something i have for decades to come in my life and enjoy, when im between recording and producing sessions (music Studio) thats where i go and relax, in the other room where i have my Monster PC and not the studio Mac , i join my Friends on line to fly, is just amazing how good i feel inside DCS world, and i became good on many Modules like theF14, F-16, F18 , F15E the Harrier…so good . RIP Wags you are missed already and you created a comradery inside DCS world real fans, when you flew that F-16 you used to teach us …man i even get emotional just knowing you took off to the sunset on that same that F-16 but this time it has a clean configuration with no Bombs but infinite love and Fuel, i hope to see you one day on the Heavenly Courts my dear Matt

    Like

    1. Hi Marcos. Thanks for the comment!

      Respectfully, though I wasn’t making niche a core part of my argument, I still firmly believe that our entire hobby is still relatively niche as a hobby and interest. It doesn’t have mass appeal the way that a AAA game does.

      To do some “back of the napkin” comparisons. DCS World’s Steam Chart all time high concurrent player rating was 3,328. Battlefield 6, by way of comparison, peaked at 656,067. Now, DCS World likely has more people playing on the direct from Eagle Dynamics method (I certainly am). Let’s say there are 4 times as many people doing that and that the peak player count is 13,312 instead. We’re still only a fraction of the way there relative to a big AAA title.

      Now that’s not a bad thing either! DCS World has tremendous staying power. You’re right too that high fidelity aircraft and simulation like this require resources and that means that pricing will be high. But also because the customer base is relatively small…. even niche. With these thoughts in mind, I will continue to follow the notion that most flight simming is niche but I would never use that as a pejorative.

      I too am tremendously sad at the loss of Matt Wagner. He will be missed! I’m very much in support of some sort of permanent memorial placed somewhere on the Caucasus map as some community members have suggested.

      Like

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