A look at possible futures for IL-2 Great Battles

After Jason’s update on the current status of the IL-2 Sturmovik: Great Battles Series, I’ve started wondering (again) about what’s just a little beyond the horizon. I’m not alone as I’ve seen several conversations pop-up all across the community about what the longer range plans for Great Battles. It seems it is long past time to do a little speculation on what the future may hold.

A couple of directions to go in

At some point in the future, Great Battles in its current iteration will probably reach some sort of end point. It’s unclear if the current IL-2 engine will be able to do what DCS has done and manage to bring all of its legacy content along with it or if it will be a clean break and the series will start fresh with a new or significantly enhanced engine and some new ideas. Both have merit and the current Digital Warfare Engine is still seeing updates to its core features (such as the new clouds system).

I see a sim that generally runs at high frame rates on most systems and offers an excellent VR experience for those who run it that way. Still there are things like clickable cockpits, enhanced graphics, and bigger feature changes that we may want to see some day. What that looks like and how it evolves are surely going to be subject of many debates. For now, the Great Battles Series continues to evolve and it seems logical to assume that development will continue on their WWII aircraft, their WWI aircraft and even on their WWII tanks.

These are some of my thoughts on where the series could go next.

Flying Circus and Tank Crew

IL-2 already has good clouds but the next gen clouds will have a big impact on Flying Circus aircraft

For World War I, the direction seems reasonably clear as 1C Game Studios and Ugra Media finish their work on Flying Circus Vol 2 and seem almost assured with their goal to bring us Vol 3 right after. Rehabilitating Rise of Flight aircraft with upgrades seems to have gone well so far despite a few bumps.

As map, aircraft and gameplay variety grow, it seems likely that the series will grow with it.

Flying Circus is also going to benefit from core feature investments and the new clouds system will probably have just as dramatic an effect on the WWI aircraft as it will on the WWII. Thicker clouds and slower planes are going to introduce some more interesting tactical challenges as well as potential avenues to escape or evade an attack.

Tank Crew’s exact future is less certain but I strongly suspect that the team have plans to forge ahead. Digital Forms, the team building the models of the tanks, is now confirmed to be on tap to build two new Collector Tanks with a release scheduled for Q2 2022.

We don’t know what the two tanks are going to be, however, 1CGS team member BlackSix gave us some insight on what some of the possibilities might be.

I can’t confirm anything, but the list of candidates from the Soviet side is rather long, there were T-60, T-70, SU-76, M3 Stuart, M3 Lee, Mk.IV Churchill, Mk.III Valentine and Mk.II Matilda

BlackSix on the IL-2 forums

These are less based on the internal decision making process and more on his extensive research on the Kursk battle. Jason confirmed that the new tanks would fit into the pre-existing Kursk battle.

As exciting as this is, it might also be a way to tide the team over while new plans are put into place for a follow-up Tank Crew title.

Suggestions have been made by the community for future Tank Crew titles including battles nearer the end of WWII on the eastern front featuring some later tanks on both sides. A jump to some earlier tanks on the eastern front or even a jump to the west and more Allied tanks in the 1944/45 time period also seem like strong candidates.

World War II aircraft expansions

The big primary draw for the series of course remains World War II aviation and here we have a bunch of options that I can see as being likely.

One is for the team to tackle the end of the war from the eastern front perspective. Long have eastern front aircraft fans called for some of the ultimate in Russian combat aircraft technology of the time. The Yak-3, La-7, IL-2 1944 and IL-10 all immediately spring to mind. Other types like the A-20G, P-39Q, and Tu-2S might help round out an aircraft set.

The German side things are more complex as there are fewer options to include. We’ve been told that a Bf109G-10 and Fw190A-9 would both hypothetically be part of a late war east front scenario. That would also essentially finish off the two aircraft families in terms of major sub variants and while some would bemoan any new Bf109 variant at this point, there are others who have made it their top wishlist item. To each is own!

The initial prototype La-7 (from airpages.ru)

Other possibilities range into the more exotic including the Ta152H, He162, Me163, and Do217K with that last one on the list armed with the first generation of guided bombs. For some of these their service records are short. Some, like the Ta152 and He162 seeing service only at the very end of the war in the April 1945 time period. The Me163 has never really been on my personal wish list unless the 1CGS team was able to give it a credible experience. Namely… the interception of large bombers.

It could also be time for the 1CGS team to finally attempt to find a business model to bring us a B-17 or B-24 bomber. Although these behemoths by WWII standards would be a challenge, with the right business model and sim engine modifications I could see it potentially working its way into the series. Would they be flyable? That would be the dream and would cement the IL-2 series as one of the greatest WWII air combat experiences around.

Early Fiat G.55 “Centauro” was considered one of the best Axis fighters of WWII

Another option might be for the team to jump to the Italian campaign with a Sicily or Italy battle title that the series could use to offer some interesting aircraft types. In addition to what we already have that could be used, Italian aircraft ranging from the MC.205, G.55, Re.2002 and 2005, to the tri-motor SM.79 could be up for potential inclusion.

The Allied side could also potentially pick up some unique types like the P-51A and A-36 Apache, an earlier model of the P-38 such as the F, G or H, the P-40L with a Merlin engine, plus the B-25 and A-20C/G could all be included. British types like the Beaufighter, tropicalized Spitfire Vc, early Spitfire IX (with enough differences to be a separate aircraft) or Spitfire VIII could also make their way in.

There are countless other battles for the series to represent but not all of them will be viable. Would I buy a battle based on the Khalkin-Gol incident? Yeah! That’d be really interesting. Could I get excited about a diversion to the Spanish Civil war where German and Soviet aircraft engineers learned all kinds of lessons for the coming battle? For sure! I would be very interested but I suspect the market interest would be somewhat lower.

An A6M5 Zero in flight

There’s also the chance that the 1CGS team have managed to make some research breakthroughs in the last couple of years and now have enough to properly model a fully realized Japanese aircraft set for Midway, Okinawa, New Guinea or some other Pacific battle. I still have high hopes of this happening but I don’t know if that time is yet at hand.

Final thoughts

That’s the big question and of course it all comes down to how the current projects are progressing and to what can be funded for the future. 1CGS, funded by parent publisher 1C, will have to walk that careful line as they always do with revealing future plans and keeping the interest high while also finishing up some of the content currently planned for.

With the C-47, the two new Flying Circus Collector Planes, two new Tank Crew Collector Vehicles, and plenty of new content for Flying Circus Vol 2 and Battle of Normandy still to come, there’s no shortage of content already on the way. There’s core features like the Advanced Quick Mission generator, new free and paid campaigns, a new fuel system management system, continued development of dynamic vehicle damage and tactical codes systems and the new clouds just to mention some of the big things on the list right now.

As always, I’m optimistic about the future of one of my all time favourite sims. It has a ton of content packed into it now and it has good options for the future. Those are the ways that I think it might go, but what do you think? Is it something else than the above? Let me know in the comments!

54 Comments Add yours

  1. harryvoyager says:

    At this point, I’m thinking a final Eastern Front campaign is most likely. Normandy and Bodenplatte tie together well, but I’m thinking it would be hard to run earlier without running into the problem of the Strategic Bombing campaign.

    The Italian front would be very interesting but it would be clearly disconnected from the Western Front stuff, and I think they may end up having to do two or more Italian campaigns to do it right.

    So, doing the Russian March to Berlin would close out the Eastern Front for the VVS die hard fans, and open up more multiplayer options for late war and hypotheticals.

    I suspect the Strategic Bombing campaign will depend on how things go with their AI work. If they have a breakthrough, or otherwise make strong progresses to support massive numbers of AI actors without destroying performance, then I think they’d more likely do the Strategic Campaign as a new project line, like Flying Circus and Tank Crew. There have already been a number of fairly successful heavy bomber sims, so the template exists. It’s no-one has had a modern engine that could support it.

    That said, a major breakthrough on the Japanese front would make the Pacific campaigns a certainty. If they can do it to standard and on a reasonable budget, Midway has touch brand recognition for them to pass up.

    We will see what happens. It’s going to be cool regardless 🙂

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Clostermann says:

      Create a properly funded, accurate to timeframe ww2 module for the dcs engine.


      1. Alex says:


        Indeed a logical conclusion. 1CGS are strong on historical research and have tons of data on eastern front maps and aircraft. Where they are not so strong are the core game engine, programming skills, testing — promised features are still not here after so many years (Air Marshal or whatever it’s called, external fuel tanks, mission editor is pain to use, dserver performance, etc…) and graphics-wise BoX is looking more dated with each passing year compared to DCS (which leverages larger player base + professional users).

        Would love to see high fidelity Stalingrad map and an IL-2 in DCS…


      2. ShamrockOneFive says:

        I would push back a bit against the idea that 1CGS doesn’t have good people working on the core game engine. They do but they only have one lead programmer and a team of approximately 20-30. I’ve heard that the ED team is somewhere in the 120 person range. For what 1CGS has to work with, they punch well above their weight.


  2. Phaseone says:

    They need to bite the bullet and go early. 109 E1, Spit Mk1 etc… Cliffs is dead, no toes to step on.


    1. ShamrockOneFive says:

      I don’t think they will. Development continues on Cliffs.


      1. Novice-Flyer says:

        Exactly, Shamrock!
        Two days ago the Lead Developer, Mike Kirby aka “Buzzsaw”, asked the community what needs fixing in regards to AI for TF 6.0. If Cliffs was dead then they wouldn’t do that, nor would they release 27 patches in the 14 months since the release of Desert Wings-Tobruk.


        Liked by 1 person

  3. Raptorattacker says:

    A lot of stuff to digest there Shamrock! Keeps the juices flowing though eh?
    Have you thought of Karelia?… mmm…

    Liked by 1 person

    1. ShamrockOneFive says:

      I don’t think Karelia/Leningrad/Finland or the Courland pocket are likely but we could see maps in these areas too!


  4. ColoniaLibre says:

    I think there can never be enough BF109s, FW190s, Mustangs, and Spitfires in a game like this. 🙂
    These were simply the most popular an most build aircraft with many subclasses.

    I would also love to see british aircraft carriers with Sea Hurricanes and Seafires for carrier operations. That would fit perfectly with an Italian or Mediterranean theater and the dev team could gain experience for a possible Pacific theater.

    There are so many interesting options that can be implemented. I hope we will have many more interesting years with IL2 Great Battles and hopefully many gamechanging engine updates too.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. ShamrockOneFive says:

      I can’t disagree with you there. I know some people don’t like variants of the same aircraft but I find them fascinating. I don’t think I need another Bf109 at this point but I know fans of the type really want a G-10. So I can see that happening!

      And all of the rest are popular aircraft no matter what so new versions… easy sell for most people even if it is decried as being the same old aircraft. The unique features of each are interesting!

      I think we will have many more interesting years ahead!


  5. Flanker35M says:

    The game needs to be upgrade to handle more stuff. To mind springs the invaasion in Normandy. Current engine can not handle anything that even remotely resembles the fleet at the coast, waves of attacking planes, paratroopers in the sky and gazillion guns firing without becoming an unplayable slide show.

    The direction of the game IMHO goes towards Battle of Berlin as it is the pinnacle of Soviet history of WW2. It will sell like hot cakes in Russia. For western clients maybe the outbreak from Normandy, Hürtgen forest etc. are more interesting if staying in the west. Strategic bombing and Defense of the Reich would be a must though.

    As of Mediterranean, I think TFS has it covered. Maybe PTO by 1C at some point? Karelia would be nice too or Kurland/Baltic?


    1. ShamrockOneFive says:

      This is the challenge for both DCS and IL-2 in different ways. Some of these battles were large and representing them in any meaningful capacity will be essentially impossible.

      I wonder what, if any, methods might be employed to give us the impression of a big invasion.


  6. bigalrico says:

    A nice summarizing article!

    All in all, the cards are similarly mixed as before. My guess would also be that the eastern front will find its conclusion with the next iteration. Even if the choice would be questionable, I would be very happy about a Ta-152 H as a FW fanboy 😀

    The heart’s desire of the Pacific would be also great, despite the obvious progress I’m rather unsure if it will really come to that in the near future. (The hope dies last).

    The Mediterranean would be (depending on the time selection) a great intersection between Kuban & Normandy aircraft which could be very exciting with new Italian types.

    Finally, I would also like it to be possible ala DCS to transfer the old content to a successor engine. Surely a difficult decision, but very desirable, but that is probably still future music.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. ShamrockOneFive says:


      The cards are mixed similarly to before, you’re right. I could have written this article two years ago (and I probably did) without too much change. There’s a limited number of options but there are some good ones out there.

      As rare as the Ta152 was… yeah, I’d be interested too!

      Liked by 1 person

  7. Aaron says:

    To my mind, I want a Malta campaign. With tropicAlised quad cannon spitfire VCs.

    I also want a late war period with P-51Ks, TA152s, etc

    Liked by 1 person

  8. Aseon says:

    I have to agree though; I see some of the stuff that DCS has and I am quite jealous. Somehow the whole world
    There seems more realistic with the Triple A flying all over

    Liked by 2 people

    1. ShamrockOneFive says:

      They do have some better visual effects. When it comes to flak, I think they have similar amounts but their flak burst graphics live several times longer giving you that impression of more flak. I wonder if IL-2 can do the same?


  9. Novice-Flyer says:

    I sure hope that the devs can do either a late war Eastern front, 1944-45 that would have the La-7, Yak-3, IL-10, or a 1943-44 Eastern Front that could also include Operation Barbarossa and we would get several Russian bombers.

    Imo, I doubt they would do Italy from 1944 onwards because AFAIK it would be primarily the Normandy and Bodenplatte planes and perhaps the G.55 and MC.205 and would work best as a Collector map than a Battle.

    For Pacific, maybe for a starter they could do Burma or Malaysia/Singapore before going to Carrier Ops.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. ShamrockOneFive says:

      Those late war eastern front aircraft would probably be very popular indeed!

      Italy would be tough but what about Sicily? These things might be doable with the right battle and the right scope.

      I’d find Singapore and Malaysia very interesting indeed! I’m not sure if the market on the whole would but… maybe!

      Liked by 1 person

  10. Aaron says:

    There will always be a big hole in the fact that there are no massed American bomber formations over German skies, with allied and German fighters flitting between them.

    This gap will need to be plugged in some way, and I hope that one day it can happen.

    I want to feel the willies before I wheel around in my sturmbock and line up the cockpit of the b17 in my sights during frontal attacks.

    I want to split s from on high in my 51D down to break head on attacks

    I want to be able to see flak bursts, skies filled with parachutes in the air, spinning bombers in flames, and contrails all over the place from fighters, rockets and cannon shells.

    When all this can be accurately represented without a hit in performance, then I think Il2 would have really, really made it.

    That being said, I applaud the devs for their work. Am a firm supporter. Bravo

    Liked by 1 person

  11. Gretsch_Man says:

    That was a very nice article, Shamrock. It’s always intriguing to speculate on things like that.

    Looking at both the article and all the comments down below, it’s quite obvious that there are still many options available for the IL-2 Great Battles series as regards to possible battles/ theatres of operation.

    And while I do have my own personal preferences here as well, I’d rather like to draw some attention to one area that I consider important, which is the single player experience. I’m not talking about scripted campaigns, but the standard campaign (e.g. the career mode), which isn’t bad, but isn’t great either.

    In this respect, I’m really missing those good old flight sims from the 80s and 90s, which were not only about simulating various aircraft (rather obviously), but were also more focused on the player experience as been a real pilot. To give just as one simple example, briefings were done in a briefing room. It was all about immersion, from a pilot’s point of view. That’s what I feel is really lacking in contemporary sims. And I do believe that a solid single player career mode could allow the IL-2 series to differentiate itself from the competition as well (assuming the rumors on the internet about single players still dominating the flight sim world been true).

    Liked by 2 people

  12. Blue 5 says:

    Interesting read. They have a lot on their plate at the moment but obviously the next step needs a lot of work-up. Question is really what can the engine handle and how long would a new engine take / cost.

    If they wanted to rinse the developed DN engine then I would suggest Sicily to Anzio, a few collector aircraft pairs and possibly a Kiev / Minsk / Seelow Heights series of maps. Thought this does not bring the revenue of a full release, it might provide ongoing revenue for investment.

    However, for large bombers or the Pacific the information from the team seems to be that a new engine would be required.

    Liked by 1 person

  13. Nagy Gábor says:

    Battle of Budapest from the very end of 1944 could be a good choice. It was the second largest siege after Stalingrad. And Tank crew would also benefit from it as there were some large tank battles in the area.
    And this is an area where both american and soviet forces were present and flew tactial missions (ground strikes, airfield attacks), even the night witches with their Po-2s were operating in this area.

    All the mentioned new soviet stuff would fit in. On the other side large number of bf109 G10-s were produced in Győr, improved me210-s were aslo produced in Hungary, and the Germans brought all their new stuff anyways. I am not sure about the american stuff, but some p38 variants and mustangs were operating in this area for sure (and not just as escort fighters).
    They should aslo add the famus hungarian Puma squadrons with hungarian voices…

    Also it would be a good theatre for a future strategic bombing chapter, as the bombing formations form Italy flew through the hungarian airspace to hit their targets in Hungary, Austria, Czechoslovakia…

    What do you think?

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Blue 5 says:

      Suspect too much built-up area. Map with a few large habitation zones but generally low-drag countryside are probably a better fit for the engine.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Nagy Gábor says:

        Right now Budapest is large but not so much in the 1940’s.
        The whole area would be very similar to the Stalingrad or Moscow maps in terms of builtup zones. One moderately big city, a dozen or more small cities and lots of small villages.

        Liked by 1 person

    2. ShamrockOneFive says:

      That’s a great suggestion and I think it has potential. Especially with so many different and diverse forces in the area.


      1. Nagy Gábor says:

        Also the landscape is very diverse, and interesting.
        The Pannonian basin is surrounded by large mountains (The Alps and the Charpatians), in the basin itself there are hilly regions in the west, and large plains in the east. And of course lake Balaton, the largest lake in central Europe.


  14. JG4_Moltke says:

    Nice article 🙂
    when I look at the planeset I would like a little more choice for the blue side. The challenge here is that new aircraft must always be meaningfully inserted into the single player mode.
    So to get the strong Italian stallions in the game you would need a Mediterranean or Italy map.
    But maybe a Map Germany 1945 would be the solution, maybe there would be the possibility to build in East and West allied aircraft as well as many German experimental models maybe there would be the possibility to build in East and West allied aircraft as well and also some German experimental Planes even if they were not available in large numbers, for example the Ta-152 or Do-335. Don’t forget the Salamander or the Kraftei but too many jets would further fuel the discussion about balance 😜

    The Pacific is and will of course remain a great dream. Apart from the many beautiful airplanes I will like to fight in a surrounding where I like to make holiday 😎🏝

    However, no matter where the path leads, I’ll go with it👍🏻

    Liked by 2 people

  15. NiiranenVR says:

    One thing more they could think about , .. I’m one of those with buttkicker / sim- seat and so on ….and it could be great if you on screen ( VR 😉) could see flak are close – push/ shaking the plane and seat feeling it
    Now it’s only noticed with hit …..and now more moving game seat are coming like yaw 2 ….
    So in future think more about the connection game and all the other stuff we buy


  16. Oyster_KAI says:

    They seems just returned to work in the Moscow office and we can expect the speed of research and development to return to normal levels.


  17. Percy Danvers says:

    Personally I really don’t want them to start fresh with a new engine unless it would somehow make the sim capable of handling much larger battles over a much larger area, which I doubt a new engine would be able to do.

    “Battle of Berlin” seems like a logical step and would be interesting, the only problem I see with is where to make the geographic cutoff. IIRC the Red Army was stalled in Silesia for a time, which might create a concentrated enough place for a career map to exist.

    My own personal wish would be for a “Battle of Anzio” scenario. There you’d have a battle that stayed in one place for long enough for the career mode to work, you’d have an interesting set of planes with Italian aircraft somewhat alleviating the problem of making axis aircraft that aren’t just different 109s and 190s, and there’d be plenty of allied aircraft to add. The setting, early 1944, would also not conflict with any of the other campaign timeframes… depending on where they make the cutoff for Normandy.


  18. 1_Robert_ says:

    Great article. The way I see it, they either go to the Pacific or begin to get the action up higher with big bombers. Either endeavour would be a major undertaking.

    Right now the game is a low altitude flight sim, missing proper high altitude tactics with strategic bombers, gunners, and deadly flak.

    I find these European plane sets starting to get tired. Please give me a Hellcat on a pitching deck or a large Lancaster group battling heavy flak over Berlin 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

  19. Edelweik says:

    Great article! Great things coming up on a game we love so much!
    But… Not a word about an opus about the French campaign? It would be a crime not to mention it… An opus surely as interesting as the beginning of the war on the eastern front that we have in part! It would be wonderful to find some legendary machines like the Dewoitine D520 or the Morane-Saulnier MS406 (to name but a few)! And some more exotic ones, like the Potez 630 or the Koolhoven FK 58 used by Polish pilots, despite their limited operational area!
    On the German side, it would allow to put forward some machines of the beginning of the war, with notably the BF109E1, E3, Ju87B, Do17 and surely a lot of other ideas allowing to create realistic fights ! I sincerely hope that one day this idea will be retained, because it is not without sense in a game which wants to be so faithful to reality!
    What do you think about it ?


    1. Blue 5 says:

      From your French campaign point, there is an obvious potential to use our European maps for 1940. Cleary it needs new aircraft and objects, but it does remove the cost and time of a new map. Unfortunately I suspect it would not generate the interest of other theaters.

      A Berlin map would be interesting, but that is a whole ‘nother module and the maps seem to be the slowest element. If the team were looking a radical move – new engine or Pacific (or both) – could Ugra or someone make a aeries of small additions using as much current content as possible?

      Liked by 2 people

  20. Osskozzot says:

    I would like a Pacific theater, with aircraft carrier, destroyers protecting convoy from (Human controlled Multicrew) Japanese submarines… deploy Sunderland, Wellington, Ventura to hunt them down protected by fighters… Imagine that on a multiplayer server… that would nice!


  21. Urgent Siesta says:

    I’m rather surprised no one’s mentioned the Korean War.

    It would be a natural and “easy” extension to the *existing* game engine. Would instantly add TRULY new plane sets, geography and plenty of scenarios for follow on “Battle of Korea: xyz” editions.

    Just imagine of the possibilities! F-82 Twin Mustang, Hawker Sea Fury, F4U Corsair, P-80, Sabre, Mig-15, Meteor, Supermarine Seafire, and plenty of Ru WW2 lineage aircraft. Heck they could even dabble in early helicopters(!).

    And no small thing, it’d be a great way to finally have aircraft carrier operations in IL2 !

    Another interesting possibility would be a “Battle of” Night Fighters. A creative re-purpose of the existing in-game “HUD” / map-view could do nicely. they wouldn’t even have to come up with a new map!


  22. rodgerdavies says:

    I’d love to see either Japan or Italian planes in the next set – personal feeling would lean towards Italy for the nature of the scenery. A map with the Gustav Line or one a bit further north would be stunning scenery and Kuban is by far my favourite map for similar reasons.


  23. Fafnir_6 says:

    I think a cool addition to the WWI stuff would be a Battle of Tarnopol expansion. This could include the Russian stuff from Rise of Flight (Ilya Murometz, Sikorsky S.16 and Nieuport 17DUX) maybe add a French Farman, Voisin or Caudron bomber and a parasol Morane while the central powers could get some interesting types like the Hansa-Brandenburg C.I (most-produced Austro-Hungarian aircraft), Hansa-Brandenburg D.I (Starstrutter), one of the the early or mid- series Oeffag D.IIIs, an Albatros C.III and a Rumpler C.IV. All this could be over an expanded version of the Tarnopol map from RoF. This could also lead into an Italian front map in a future Battle of the Isonzo Line module.

    For WWII, I think a return to the Ostfront is in the offing. I’m personally partial to the Battle of Barbarossa which could have I-153, early-series I-16, early series LaGG-3, DB-3/IL-4, SB-2 for the VVS and the Hs123, Bf110C, Ju87B, Do17Z and maybe a Bf109E-4B for the Luftwaffe. I’ve also seen a proposal in the forums for a Battle of Odessa module which would have much of the above, but with a focus on the Romanian air force, maybe with a few changes like an Su-2 and PZL P.43 and P.11. Other additions could be a Battle of Dieppe mini module that I’ve seen suggested. Of course a move to the pacific front would be cool, they could start with land-based campaigns if the carriers are progressing too slowly, Battle of New Guinea or a CBI (China-Burma-India) campaign would be rad.



    Liked by 1 person

    1. ShamrockOneFive says:

      As a fan of the more obscure air battles, that’d be great! I’d love to see that.


  24. Blue 5 says:

    Can I have all of the above. With fries.

    Liked by 1 person

  25. Seapiglet says:

    I wonder how much longer the model of bringing out a new battle with entirely new aircraft on both sides will make sense. If all planes and maps effectively became collector planes (akin to DCS) I think it would give more flexibility. They could perhaps still be marketed as battles, allowing you to pick up a (slightly discounted) bundle consisting of several planes from each side plus a map, but if you already own all the 109s from other battles you just pick up the new aircraft.


    1. ShamrockOneFive says:

      Although I don’t know the financials, it sounds like the Rise of Flight model where each aircraft was available individually won’t be returned to. Some types were obviously more popular than others so they sold more but other less popular (but still important to give variety of the sim) types weren’t great sellers. I’m guessing that IL-2 won’t go to that model and will stick with the mostly sold in battle packs.

      It seems to be working although I know some folks have said that it’s hard to know what they own and what they still need to buy.


      1. Blue 5 says:

        The Snipe vs. Schuker (sp?) maybe the way to go in small additions.


      2. ShamrockOneFive says:

        That’s a good point!


  26. Fafnir_6 says:

    The problem with only doing Snipe versus Schukert-style additions is that less exciting, but very necessary types of aircraft won’t get made. These are essential for single-player gameplay which constitutes the bulk of flight simming, despite what the multiplayer community may want or say. That is why the devs moved away from the RoF purchase model to the theatre model of BoX. I think Snipe vs. Schukert primarily happened because Flying Circus Vol. 1 was moderately successful, causing the devs to go all in on moving the WWI assets into the new engine. They wanted to drum up excitement and support for Flying Circus Vol.2 & 3. There is a sizable portion of the Rise of Flight community that has resisted moving over to BoX. Rise of Flight, while not being developed any more is currently far more comprehensive than WWI in BoX. I think BoX will get there but they need people to purchase the later Volumes of Flying Circus for it to materialize. Offering brand new, not-in-RoF aircraft geared toward the multiplayer community (who are far more likely to snap up over-powered late-war birds) will help fuel that switch over. Jason has kind of hinted at this and I think it makes sense.



    Liked by 1 person

    1. Blue 5 says:

      Sure, but the risk vs. return on ‘fighting pairs’ likely looks better from their offices. Modules / theatres bring greater revenue if sufficient numbers pre-buy, otherwise the team is looking at 18 months of work with insufficient income.

      The 2 approaches can co-exist as 1C have shown. I agree it probably reduces likelihood of ‘necessary’ types but frankly are there that many left in current modules that would not be a pain to model? We did get a C-47, which was slightly unexpected.

      Small pairs keeps the money coming in, can be outsourced and allow core team to focus on major developments. FC.2, people not yet decided on BoN and a host of small packs / collectors aircraft and vehicles are the major revenue generators at present.

      Hence I suspect more small editions may appear, based on their relative speed of delivery and lower investment. I would buy standalone maps, but these appear to be likely the worst PnL of the whole show.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Fafnir_6 says:

        Yes, both approaches can co-exist. I think that’s what the IL-2 devs are doing now. I bought the C-47A after all 🙂 and will pick up the new WWI birds as well. But I think it would be a very bad idea to abandon the theatre approach as the main driver of progress in the sim. If you do, you wind up with the disjointed mess that is DCS WWII: with the historical aircraft mismatches, many aircraft types that are important for single player immersion missing and a lack of the overall direction that the IL-2 devs have nailed down. The DCS devs only build the popular stuff (probably because the investment needed to get an addition in DCS is so high) and as a result I and many other single player fans who want an immersive career stick with the better directed sim: IL-2. IL-2 is less high-fidelity but it more than makes up for it with a complete and coherent package that the theatre release approach provides. I would pay serious money for a DCS: Vietnam expansion with 10 flyables and a proper contemporary map, but we’ll never see it. Not enough people want to fly an F-100, Skyraider or F-105, so there’s no directed effort to get there, which is a shame because it would be awesome.



        Liked by 1 person

  27. I think a new module for BoX will depend heavily on the question where most of their customer base is located and where those guys propably have the most interest in. AFAIK at present most of their customers are single player focussed and located in Russia, Europe and the US.
    Looking at things from that perspective I can´t imagine anything else except late war eastern front stuff coming next. Reason is also, that already available german planes would fit into that scenery and new german planes of an eastern front scenery would fit into Bodenplatte.
    Additionaly, if they are clever, they design the map that way, that the german side could face both soviet and allied opponents. That would allow them to offer their customers also some “unicorn” collector planes which saw only 3 or 4 weeks of combat until VE Day like the Ta 152 H0/H1, the Fw 190 D11/D13 or He 162, with the Ta 152 and D11/D13 being more likely for me. I guess until x-mas we´ll hear from them what their future plans will include. With all those visual and functional game-engine improvements going on at present, I have the feeling we look into a very bright 2022/23 gaming period.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Blue 5 says:

      An Elba-Oder map would be epic but probably beyond the company / engine to realise.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. Maybe they don´t even need to do this. AFAIK quite a lot of Luftwaffe units surrendered to US Troops in the former Czechoslovakia area around Pilsen and Praque. So they could place a possible map maybe from the southern outskirts of Berlin to the northern outskirts of Praque and eastern limitation maybe between Posen and Breslau and western limitation maybe around Leibzig. That would result in a map aprox. the size of the Rheinland map.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. ShamrockOneFive says:

        That’d be a very interesting map! Great idea.


  28. Blue 5 says:

    That’s a really good idea, not thought of that 👍


  29. BringTheReign says:

    A proper Pacific Theatre, with islands, carriers, fighters, dive bombers, and the like, is sorely missing from the “modern” combat sims. Flying a Zero around in VR and landing on a carrier is only possible in (shudder) War Thunder….


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